View Full Version : hookers ? do u "use" them ?; P
RonWelty
12-04-2004, 04:11 AM
do u think that prostituition would be allowed ? like - they can work "legalY" etc etc ?
wheelchairman
12-04-2004, 04:20 AM
Prostitution is the process of turning women into an accomodity. In a truly equal society, prostitution won't exist.
do u think that prostituition would be allowed ? like - they can work "legalY" etc etc ?
Yeah it can, prostitution is legal here. And I don't think it bothers anyone. Well, sure it bothers someone, but no one makes a big deal out of it. Just works perfectly.
Kitten
12-04-2004, 05:52 AM
While I agree that it makes women a commodity, it is happening. The problem with it being illegal, is that some women who might get bashed, or basically held at ransom by their pimps have no legal rights whatsoever.
Until the perfect world comes along where women wont feel that the only thing they have going for them is selling their bodies, it should be legal. Both for the reason that the working conditions could be monitored, and also so they have a taxable income. They are doing it as a job, they should pay taxes and be given some rights, seeing as how they do it illegally anyway.
wheelchairman
12-04-2004, 06:34 AM
The state should make it legal to buy women? It's because they live in such economically poor conditions (I'm referring to regular prostitutes, not those select few who makes obscene amounts of money while sleeping with the über rich down in Nevada or whereever that place was.)
Women don't become prostitutes because they want to, they don't do it for the glamorous job opportunities it creates. They do it because they need the money and that is basically the same as a society having an army of women sex slaves. They shouldn't be forced to be in this position.
Kitten
12-04-2004, 07:08 AM
The state should make it legal to buy women? It's because they live in such economically poor conditions (I'm referring to regular prostitutes, not those select few who makes obscene amounts of money while sleeping with the über rich down in Nevada or whereever that place was.)
Women don't become prostitutes because they want to, they don't do it for the glamorous job opportunities it creates. They do it because they need the money and that is basically the same as a society having an army of women sex slaves. They shouldn't be forced to be in this position.
I agree that they should not be forced into that position, I am saying that while they are, they should have the say rights as workers in other industries.
Little_Miss_1565
12-04-2004, 07:17 AM
in Amsterdam and in Las Vegas it's working because government agencies enforce strict health codes, etc., and protect the women. I agree that prostitution makes women a commodity and is therefore bad. But I also think that most of the anti-prostitution organizations, protests, etc. make the mistake of placing the blame for the prosti problem solely on the women, with no responsibility on the johns.
in Amsterdam
The Netherlands is more than just Amsterdam you know. It's legal in the entire country. I don't think you can start prostituting in your own house though, but in a location which has been selected by the city itself.
RonWelty
12-04-2004, 07:39 AM
here not .... instead there a lot of houses full of girls and the cops almost never say nothing ..i think that these things should be controled - safe sex , they would have to pay taxes , have access to national health care "specialised" but with some laws , because we´re a almost 100 % catholic state and we can ´t change all in one day ..
Prostitution is the process of turning women into an accomodity. In a truly equal society, prostitution won't exist.
Funny how you assume it's only turning women into a accomodity. Men too. OMFG!
Hookers are awesome. And they should exsist in an equal society, I was watching this show about these guys who were like 50 and never fucked or kissed or shit so they went to hookers. Therefore hookers perform a good service for society.
RonWelty
12-04-2004, 09:42 AM
Hookers are awesome. And they should exsist in an equal society, I was watching this show about these guys who were like 50 and never fucked or kissed or shit so they went to hookers. Therefore hookers perform a good service for society.[/QUOTE]
are u a gigolo ? :S
Mota Boy
12-04-2004, 09:49 AM
Here (http://www.bostonmagazine.com/ArticleDisplay.php?id=404) is a pretty interesting article I read on the subject a while ago.
Prostitution is the process of turning women into an accomodity. In a truly equal society, prostitution won't exist.
The fact of the matter is that prostitution has existed since the dawn of time. No matter how equal you make society, there will still be a biological difference between men and women. Ultimately it boils down to the fact that men want to screw a helluva lot more. So much so that they're willing to pay quite large amounts of money - large enough to entice plenty of women.
You can either claim that the problem is immoral and then confine it to the streets, where diseases are far more likely to spread and the women are far more likely to be abused or even killed, or you could bring it indoors and regulate it. This will ensure that the process is much less of a health threat and much more beneficial for the women involved.
The state should make it legal to buy women?
Come come now, wcm. Buy women? Surely you are familiar with the existence of services. Sure, it's a more personal service, but that doesn't stop it from becoming a service. According to Marx, any sort of skilled labor can be defined as a commodity.
I think WCM tries to be too pro women sometimes. It's just sex. Fuck society and it's stupid morals. Hookers are awesome. There's a HUGE business that ain't street hookers who are so desperate for cash. Besdies, if they weren't hookers how else would they get money? The state? An education? In an ideal world yes, in the real world no.
And yes I'd offer my services up for sale, but only to hot women. Not munts. Maybe hot guys.
Little_Miss_1565
12-04-2004, 10:01 AM
The Netherlands is more than just Amsterdam you know. It's legal in the entire country. I don't think you can start prostituting in your own house though, but in a location which has been selected by the city itself.
Aaah, check. I thought it was just the city.
I think WCM tries to be too pro women sometimes. It's just sex. Fuck society and it's stupid morals. Hookers are awesome.
Wow, thanks for totally ignoring the part that criminality plays in the whole business, the drugs (ever heard of crack whores?) and modern slave market that the prostitution business has become on certain parts.
I'm talking about girls in East-European countries dreaming of a better life countries who're promised all kinds of things but when they arrive to West-European countries or Scandinavia, they're forced into prostitution.
There probably are women who do it for a conviction (comparable to porn stars who think of it as a job like any other), but these women are quite rare in many countries these days.
And just so you know, this is one of those topics where I will take your women-hating-bullshit seriously and fucking blow up at you for some half-witted "the-bitches-had-it-coming"-joke because at times, I expect more from your intelligence.
I really don't give a shit what you expect. Please don't think I do. I don't care what any women think because all women are inherently stupid.
If they legalised prostitution it would solve a lot more. You think I'm pro sex slaves? No. I'm pro a guy wanting some action or a girl and paying for it legit. No pimps no aids no shit. Sex is sex. Morals are fucking stupid.
EAD.
I don't care what any women think because all women are inherently stupid.
That is so fucking stupid of you that it truly makes the mind boggle. How much genetics have you studied in order to come to this brilliant conclusion?
Or rather, that dumb generalization.
Answer the rest of my post. There's nothing wrong with the hookers I said. Of course a girl unwilling to do it is. But those who do it for money rock.
I don't think I give a shit anymore. And why should you? I mean, after all, this IS coming from a member of the less intelligent gender.
Way to take things seriously.
but seriously answer the question. Are you against a guy paying for sex on principle? Don't bring crime and sex slaves into it. Just answer that question.
RonWelty
12-04-2004, 11:08 AM
dunnio ..i think that would be some "legal " companies ..like a service ...u know ...with taxes to the state etc !
Little_Miss_1565
12-04-2004, 11:20 AM
I really don't give a shit what you expect. Please don't think I do. I don't care what any women think because all women are inherently stupid.
Don't even start. I'm not even going to get into this, as it's obvious you have a problem with women, most likely due to an unfortunate incident. And that's fine, I have problems with men sometimes. But sweeping statements like this are crap. And don't even get all "way to take things seriously"--cowardly move.
If they legalised prostitution it would solve a lot more. You think I'm pro sex slaves? No. I'm pro a guy wanting some action or a girl and paying for it legit. No pimps no aids no shit. Sex is sex. Morals are fucking stupid.
EAD.
I agree with you in part. However, women don't turn to prostitution because they like sex. It is a last resort of desperation, even if a woman turns to prostitution on her own without being bullied by a pimp. And I think what many people in this thread are getting at is that it's a fucking shame that it gets this bad for women. It's not a matter of morals.
How do you know ALL women turn to it out of desperation. Way to make a broad sweeping statement ala RXP.
ALL women DO NOT turn to it out of desperation. Is it so hard for you to undertand this? There's those whores that get paid £450 an hour and have been for years. They are certainly not doing it out of desperation.
If you weren't going to go into it, you woudln't have quoted me. But just left it alone.
Also how many hookers do you know 1565? To make such a sweeping statement for all women who are hookers? Just interested.
RonWelty
12-04-2004, 11:34 AM
Also how many hookers do you know 1565? To make such a sweeping statement for all women who are hookers? Just interested.
this is getting hot in here ..cool !
It just angers me that people accuse me of making sweeping statements, clearly I do in jest, but then you come back in the attempt of a valid point it you are just so brainwashed by bull shit society/media/whatever that you can't see the world for what it is. And not everyone is the same. The only broad sweeping statement that is true on the whole is most people are fucking stupid.
Little_Miss_1565
12-04-2004, 12:44 PM
I know a couple ex-prosties, RXP. And I know a few strippers. I'm willing to allow that there are some people as you describe. But I'd hardly call them the majority.
No but there more than the media portray them, however.
dirty_magic
12-04-2004, 01:51 PM
hookers make the world go round
Chris
12-04-2004, 05:19 PM
Answer the rest of my post. There's nothing wrong with the hookers I said. Of course a girl unwilling to do it is. But those who do it for money rock.
they rock because? don't you think people should really set themselves higher aspirations than that, hardly the greatest of career moves is it...
Not Ozymandias
12-04-2004, 05:32 PM
It's existed forever and always will exist. It should be legal and regulated like anything else to protect people from disease and underage people from exploitation.
Way to take things seriously.
I told you that in a topic and argument like this, I was not going to take your anti-female crap as a joke. I told you and very well meant it.
Like 1565 said, the women who do it for a conviction or because they like sex are a minority.
I'd rather be flipping burgers than selling my body. And at least in Finland, these women have been brought to the conversation and they're expressed opinions that they don't want anyone to be forced into practising this profession. And they also want regulations, not stupid laws like you can buy sex but selling it is illegal (like what we had a few years ago, I think).
And by the way, I don't give a fuck about your BBS persona. I can be a bitch online just like everyone, but I don't go around making stupid generalizations about 50% of the world's population.
wheelchairman
12-05-2004, 04:20 AM
It's pretty common, at least here in Denmark, and I assume in most of Europe, that prostitutes are trafficked (smuggled) from Eastern Europe. These women, have no money, they live in horrible conditions where their 'master' can be rather cruel, and where they must have sex with men for money. And the fact of the mattre is, they need this money. Is it still consentual then?
I personally have no problem with people have sex. I think a free and open sexual society would be great. But prostitution isn't free and open, it's the exploitation of poor women and that really has to stop.
I think Vera's post early on in this thread, was very well formulated.
It's pretty common, at least here in Denmark, and I assume in most of Europe, that prostitutes are trafficked (smuggled) from Eastern Europe. These women, have no money, they live in horrible conditions where their 'master' can be rather cruel, and where they must have sex with men for money. And the fact of the mattre is, they need this money. Is it still consentual then?
I personally have no problem with people have sex. I think a free and open sexual society would be great. But prostitution isn't free and open, it's the exploitation of poor women and that really has to stop.
I think Vera's post early on in this thread, was very well formulated.
(jesus)
I fail to see your point, how is making prostitution illegal and unregelated going to stop women trafficking?
In my opinion you have a higher chance off stopping it when it's well regulated. Cause here it's regulated (health care, pay taxes and stuff) and the prostitutes who do it voluntary aren't happy with the illegal ones either (women trafficking + standard illegal ones), since they don't pay taxes and bring the prices down and the ones who are forced bring them even more down. So the legal prostitutes have some sort of power to make the government do something about the illegal ones which wouldn't happen in an unregelated "market of services" .
On another note why are you always talking about women, since there are quite a lot of young male prostitutes here (probably because of the big gay scene here).
wheelchairman
12-05-2004, 04:43 AM
I never said anything about making prostitution illegal. We would never get rid of it in modern society.
Male prostitution is less of a problem. The gay scene is generally pretty open and not so hard to score in.
And most guys aren't forced into prostitution due to money problems. However the ones who are shouldn't be in that position, I agree. Although generally why female prostitution exists and has existed for so long ties in with the existence of the patriarch.
acgc2002
12-05-2004, 08:23 AM
this is quite a serious topic. I think it should be legal to create laws to provide care about health and deseases control.
On the other hand... selling the body is a very controversial topic. Most people who do it ( especially women) they do it obliged, either because of traffic or because they are in need of money. Few do it because they feel like or because they like sex. So, this is a very controversal topic... hard to be decided.
RonWelty
12-05-2004, 08:49 AM
eheheheh
sure it´s a serious topic .... actually we have an "great topic " in our country : some sports agent paid to some hookers to do some "partys " with some referies ..that´s great :D
T-6005
12-06-2004, 06:27 AM
Well, here's my deal. My personal opinion. Slandered or not, it'll probably hold.
Prostitution, like any other career, should be a choice. If a woman chooses to sell her body, that should be her decision and not someone else's. A woman who chooses to take this step and to offer her body as a service should, I believe, be provided for with adequate health care and a method of preventing abuse. I also believe, however, that the woman should recognize the risks of entering a business that has historically been shady, and in which many women have been reduced to objects and been subject to insane amounts of abuse. On the subject of this abuse, in case anyone is wondering: I believe that anyone who would inflict harm on another person for anything less than self defense is a disgusting human being, and someone who would force someone else to sell their body to survive is the lowest type of human being, hardly deserving the name.
In a perfect society, of course, the choice to sell one's body would be the woman's, and the fear of abuse would not exist.
But it's all a question of perception. I would have to think this completely through to really be sure of what I wanted to say.
When I started writing this, I think it was Vera I agreed with, but I can't remember who said what.
Trip Boy
12-06-2004, 07:45 AM
^ Your wrote far to much. Just admit you can't get any and use prostitutes. Or your sister is a prostitute and you support her career choice.
some sell cheese, some sell sex. really, it's their profession & for many their CHOSEN profession. almost any *legal* prostitute over here has chosen for the business, because they thought it'd be a good option for them one way, or another. well, it sure wouldn't be my choice, but then again I wouldn't ever want to become a dentist either.
I agree to some level, that it seems wrong to sell yourself & to put a pricetag on your own precious body, that could never be expressed in all the money of the world. but I see this quite rationally; one is a great pianist, the other is simply a fantastic fuck, a beast between the sheets. prostitutes don't think of themselves as people, who throw their body in the meatmarket for sale, most of them do what they can to earn bucks. they consider fucking an art, as much as a barber does when it comes to cutting hair. they don't give their customers anything of themselves (you can't give someone, what you don't have; dignity), just a bit of satisfaction & a slight release of sexual frustration & possible insecurities. they work to please. their body, in their eyes, doesn't carry a pricetag, it's what they DO, that has its price. remember, that some girls do the exact same (whoring around) for free.
I based this on two prostitutes I talked to (yeah, I can get talkative at night, when I'm going home drunk). I can't say anything for anyone, who HASN't chosen that profession, or for who circumstances are different.
Why can't all women be like you?
All fine with me if someone wants to do it. But RXP doesn't seem to understand that it's not "OMG teh HORES R EVIL N SHUD DY!11111111". It's like, hey, there are A LOT of people out there who don't do it because they consider fucking an art.
There are those girls smuggled from Eastern countries, there are child prostitutes, there are girls who're forced to do it by their families in order to support the whole family. Some are in so much shit they'd fuck anything just so they can get some money to buy dope.
It isn't exactly your ideal work situation in most cases where you provide the service and get good money for it. Often the situation is where there's a pimp who's ripping the woman/girl off and the pimp's the one who's benefiting from all of it, the girl is just pretty much a slave.
Like, okay, we could ignore all this crap and just talk about the minority of women who do it for a living as it is what they genuinely want to do as a career but to me it seems stupid to ignore that these things are going on in the world just so that we could talk about the neat prossies that sell pussy because they like to do so. (That could be a way for RXP to phrase it, I'm not disrespecting these women, I think it's good that their profession is legal and they have their healthcare and they can do that as a living and make a profit and be happy with their lives, I've no problem with it, my main problem here is RXP to be honest. What can I say? Your stupidity pisses me off at times.)
Betty
12-07-2004, 09:24 AM
minority of women
This keeps popping up, and I really don't know much about the amount of women who "choose"/choose not to do this.
I think a lot of it depends on what perspective you're coming from though. I think everybody who is supporting the prostitutes are referring to the ones in probably the richer cities who are at least somewhat choosing what they do and probably make a nice amount of money from it. I don't emphasis the choice, because while I'm sure some women love the sex/power trip/etc, some probably just do it cause you can make a LOT more money than say by waitressing, and to them that is worth it. Which is okay, it's still a choice.
And then some people just keep coming back with "Yeah, but that's just a small minority". But is it really just a teeny tiny minority? If you're not thinking about the "southern european girls", but are thinking about the girls in New York City, or Paris, or I don't know where there are lots of hookers... it's probably not just an insignificant minority. I just don't think the "supporters" of prostitutes are referring to the poor young girls forced into it for whatever reasons.
Again, I don't really know hookers, or much about that whole situation, but this is what I imagine...
The Cheshire Cat
12-07-2004, 09:42 AM
I'm not sure you can really use child prostitution as an argument against legalizing prostitution. Child prostitution would still be illegal. It's like using child labour to argue against it being legal to work for a living. Just because some people take advantage of other people doesn't mean that legalizing the profession would open the floodgates.
Pimping is seperate from prostitution entirely. Pimps don't really do anything except take their money, so there's no reason why pimping should be legal. But there's nothing inherently wrong with the act of selling sex so long as the person selling it chooses to do so.
Another argument against prostitution is that it's dangerous for the prostitutes. That's true, but only in street prostitution. If prostitution were legalized, we'd see a lot more whorehouses spring up. In those cases it's a much more controlled environment and it's a lot safer than just getting into a strangers car.
Whether or not you think prostitution itself is exploitative or not, you have to at least concede that legalization with a set of standards and regulations would be a lot better than the way it is now.
Like I said, I'm just kind of tired of RXP's attitude. I know he can be clever at times, but he can be fucking thick and it's almost like he chooses to be that way on the BBS and it just bugs me.
To answer your question, I'm not sure they are such a minority, depends on the place, depends on the situation in the country, I guess.
I guess what I was trying to say is that we shouldn't really focus on them, even if "hookers are neat".
Betty
12-07-2004, 10:06 AM
I think it comes down to him being maybe not the most tactful... due to a particular opinion about the subject...
And you being more sensitive/serious about this issue than others... probably due to your own opinions about the subject...
Let's everybody give everybody a break... ha...
wheelchairman
12-07-2004, 10:30 AM
If you believe prostitutes in Paris sell themselves because it's a great place to make a lot of money. Well then you watch too many films, Paris would be where a lot of those Eastern European girls prostitute themselves.
As for New York, I can hardly think that any prostitute is making a lot of money there, perhaps a few, but I would imagine it is mostly poor women in a bad situation who need the money who do it in New York.
This isn't a Julia Roberts film.
Betty
12-07-2004, 10:34 AM
I told you I don't know anything about it... I just question the minority thing.
All fine with me if someone wants to do it. But RXP doesn't seem to understand that it's not "OMG teh HORES R EVIL N SHUD DY!11111111". It's like, hey, there are A LOT of people out there who don't do it because they consider fucking an art.
There are those girls smuggled from Eastern countries, there are child prostitutes, there are girls who're forced to do it by their families in order to support the whole family. Some are in so much shit they'd fuck anything just so they can get some money to buy dope.
It isn't exactly your ideal work situation in most cases where you provide the service and get good money for it. Often the situation is where there's a pimp who's ripping the woman/girl off and the pimp's the one who's benefiting from all of it, the girl is just pretty much a slave.
Like, okay, we could ignore all this crap and just talk about the minority of women who do it for a living as it is what they genuinely want to do as a career but to me it seems stupid to ignore that these things are going on in the world just so that we could talk about the neat prossies that sell pussy because they like to do so. (That could be a way for RXP to phrase it, I'm not disrespecting these women, I think it's good that their profession is legal and they have their healthcare and they can do that as a living and make a profit and be happy with their lives, I've no problem with it, my main problem here is RXP to be honest. What can I say? Your stupidity pisses me off at times.)
I'm not ignoring anything. I know what goes on in the world.
if your main problem is me, then so be it. I'm a lot of people's main problems. I just think I'm approaching the hooker debate from a whole different angle.
I'm not saying slave girls don't go on. I feel for those girls. I'd love to be the knight in shining armour and take them in. But fuck that ain't gonna happen. I just hate societies general consensous that all hookers are bad. Paying for sex is bad. Fuck society. That's what I mean.
And why do I piss you off? My apparent stupidity. I chose nothing I was born and this is what I am. omfg Troy quote.
I'm not being as sensitive as I may come off. It's not like I know any prostitutes personally or know anyone who's been forced into it. However, I just see the being forced to prostitution thing a serious issue and even if this is the stupid Offspring BBS, I don't feel like I should just be all jokey and non-serious about it.
And I just sort of assume and hope that people would approach the subject the way I think it needs to approached. So of course the "yay prossies"-attitude sort of pisses me off, but if I seem offended, don't assume I am, at least not a lot.
I don't lose any sleep over what anyone says on the BBS.
I don't really consider pimping separate from prostitution. Most of the hugely exploited prostitutes who come from Eastern European countries are forced to prostitution by their pimps, who then take most of the money. It's not always the situation that forces the women to sell their body, it's sometimes a person.
I think I'm getting off this topic, because I really don't have anything to say that I haven't said at least twice before and also, it's getting tiring as I'm not really opposing anyone anymore.
RonWelty
12-07-2004, 02:25 PM
chill out dudes ...t!!!
Betty
12-07-2004, 03:16 PM
In the paper today...
"Sex slave shocker
HUNDREDS COERCED INTO LOW LIFE, MOUNTIES SAY
By JIM BRONSKILL, THE CANADIAN PRESS
AT LEAST 600 foreign women and girls are coerced into joining the Canadian sex trade each year by human traffickers, says a newly declassified RCMP report. As many as 2,200 other newcomers are smuggled into the U.S. from Canada to toil in brothels, sweatshops, domestic jobs or construction work, estimates the intelligence assessment obtained by The Canadian Press. (...)"
RXP - if every girl would be like me, it'd be a nutty, chaotic, very WRONG world.
RonWelty, really, this topic & practically whole forum is meant for debate & argumental posts, so let's keep this discussion as open as it is, okay?
(haha, I typed "whore", instead of "whole")
didn't I say "legal prostitution"?? I know I did. I live in Amsterdam, not in fucking Guatemala. over here kids can't legally fuck for money. we're 'decent' like that. yeah. nor is it legal here to ship foreigners from exotic countries to let them please & entertain our darling Dutch men. I said circumstances can force a person into the business & I'm aware, that this happens a LOT. I excluded that certain category in my previous post, which leaves a small group of prostitutes, who went in the business voluntarily, thinking it'd be the best thing for them to do. YES, even though you don't think it'd be a good thing for anyone to do, simply because it's not something you'd ever do & you consider it wrong from your personal morals & whatever, doesn't mean they don't exist. hell yeah, they do.
over here we call them "loverboys", guys who trick women in the business of prostitution. I haven't included this category before (as I said..), but lets state clearly, that this certainly is NOT something that has my approval. (also it's against the law. wow.) my goodness, my mother didn't drop me on the head as a baby.
Loverboys pick up young, insecure girls, who haven't got the tightest relationship with their parents. slowly they do anything & everything to win their trust & to prove their 'real' & 'pure' love for these girls. then everything goes into work to persuade them to become a whore, if she wants to save their future together. it's disgusting, it's cruel, it's WRONG. let me say that very clearly. let me also say, that to be tricked like that.. there must be quite a few things wrong with you. that's no excuse for anyone to take advantage of that, but it happens. in every world, neighbourhood & profession. even in a shitloads of relationships, we consider to be perfectly normal. of course you can take advantage of people & their weaknesses in certain degrees, in which this one beats about every form. it'll never be right, but it'll happen & not only in prostitution.
I assume I don't have to start about kids & immigrants whoring? again this is not legal & for extremely good reasons. the laws weren't made overnight.
many women in the business are addicted to heroin. no one can't possibly go around that fact. heroin is so toxic, that kicking the habbit can even kill you. detox programs are about.. useless for heroinaddicts. strange, but true. a hardc0re heroinuser won't ever be able to fully function without it, no matter what. besides the stuff being outright nasty, it's also one very expensive 'hobby'. working with paychecks isn't an option, because the habbit constantly requires instant loads of cash. they'll do anything for it. anything. it's their food, the air they breathe, it's simply litterally what keeps them alive. if prostitution becomes fully illegal, they'll just have to go against the law. when a law forces you to cross it, it's not a very good law, is it?
(I'm, by the way, very well aware of the fact, that most of these women already go against the law by picking up guys for paid sex from the streets & abusing heroin in the first place)
people will manipulate & take advantage of each other & make wrong decisions till the end of time. & don't even try to convince me, that you've never experienced this yourself. I know I have. sure that ain't good, but what are you going to do? change human kind?? let's all get on our high horses of dignity & pride; we're addiction-free, fine educated, well financed, unexperienced at life, most of us with somewhat supportive & involved parents, so yeah, I guess that'd be justified.
laws don't prevent every single mistake a human can make from being made. they somewhat try to narrow down the number & to have a slight grip & control over them. once one crosses the law, he/she undermines that control on society & that'll be the beginning of chaos. based on human rights it's not wrong to sell sex. it IS wrong to be forced to do so by circumstances, or by others.
SicN Twisted
12-10-2004, 01:16 PM
I was threatened by a pimp for photographing one of your darlings in the red windows.
I do, however, believe there's no legitimate reason to prohibit prostitution. The extent that women are exploited as prostituted is the same as the extent they're exploited as secretaries, and stay at home moms. Exploitation of women is something that exists in all trades and is an entirely separate problem within itself. Prostitution is a tradition that's thousands of years old, and I don't consider there to be anything morally wrong with it. Most prostitutes in countries where it's legal or descriminalized, like Holland and the Czech Republic, and in the state of Nevada, regard themselves as proffesionals selling a service. They're no different then any other kind of merchants, because sex is and always will be a commodity. Puritans try to view prostitution as degrading, but in most cases, it simply isn't. It's only insulting to women who consider it a legitimate source of income that they're being looked down upon by hypocritical right wing evangelists that shun sex because it's indulgent. I respect a prostitute as much as I respect any other honest member of society, and I think it's pathetic how people try to make them seem like criminals. I must stress, prostitution does NOT turn a woman into a commodity. Prostitution, at least in its legal context, is a proffesional doing a job.
I do think there is a problem with prostitution in Amsterdam, since at least 80 percent of the whores are black. I don't know if this is a coincidence, but I'd think they're being transported from colonies cause they'd be willing to work cheaper.
SicN Twisted
12-10-2004, 01:18 PM
Vera, the only times prostitues are exploited and have to work as slaves are when countries make prostitution illegal. In countries with licenced brothels, this can't happen because of government regulations.
RonWelty
12-10-2004, 01:44 PM
Vera, the only times prostitues are exploited and have to work as slaves are when countries make prostitution illegal. In countries with licenced brothels, this can't happen because of government regulations.
do u really think so? :X u can see a lot of "illegal " things everywhere ...some teen girls from russian and chine with 14 years and something ...u call this legal? :X
SicN Twisted
12-10-2004, 01:50 PM
Government licenced brothels usually don't allow such practices.
RonWelty
12-10-2004, 03:36 PM
Government licenced brothels usually don't allow such practices.
and do u think that they " respect the law" ? :X
Scarecrow
12-11-2004, 03:04 AM
blah blah yadda yadda
Agree on that.. And the legal prostitution is said to be very well controlled (dunno for myself, but its what i hear of it). As long as something is illegal there is nobody to stop someone from forcing a girl to prostitution. By making it legal at least a part of the "buissiness" is "controlable". There still is an illegal circuit but its easyer to fight when there is a difference between legal and illegal in stead of illegal and tolerated.
i'm also dutch btw.
SicN Twisted
12-12-2004, 05:56 PM
Of course they abide by the law, cause they exist in places where prostitution is legal.
Regardless of whether or not it's legal and there are professional whore-houses set up, there will always be people that fall into a shitty situation that end up selling themselves on the street because either they're not old enough to work in the whore house, because they don't meet the health requirements, whatever. It should be legalized, and legalization will help with the health factors and stuff, but it's blind to think that there won't still be street whores.
SicN Twisted
12-12-2004, 11:16 PM
Of course there will be. People take fast food jobs for the same reasons. Of course people are forced into undesirable work because of circumstances. That doesn't make prostitution morally wrong. As I said, the majority of prostitues in countries with legal prostition regard themselves as proffesionals, and although I wouldn't know, they seem to be proffesionals. The highest paid whores in Amsterdam's red light district make almost impressive livings. The problems that drive some people into prostitution don't make it an immoral business.
wheelchairman
12-13-2004, 04:48 AM
You're the one bringing up morals.
The issue is that woman should not be reduced to selling their bodies (an act that many will find degrading in what still is a patriarchical society, yes even Holland), to survive by having to lay on your back for the patriarch, it's not something anyone should *have* to do. Not something someone should be forced to do.
SicN Twisted
12-13-2004, 09:01 AM
I'm saying that circumstances that force woman to do it are dcirect results of prohibition of prostitution, and just because these circumstances exist doesn't mean that prostitution as a practice is bad. The great majority of prostitutes are simply proffesionals.
You're the one bringing up morals.
The issue is that woman should not be reduced to selling their bodies (an act that many will find degrading in what still is a patriarchical society, yes even Holland), to survive by having to lay on your back for the patriarch, it's not something anyone should *have* to do. Not something someone should be forced to do.
they don't sell their bodies, they sell sex. even if you call sex 'making love' you're still not giving away a goddamn thing, except that you're exchanging fluids. or do you believe, that every time you have a girlfriend you make hot sweet lovin' with, you're giving away body parts?? oh I'm sure you don't mean it litterally, but that's what makes a pro whore a pro. their body is just a tool to satisfy customers, like it is for dancers & practically anyone. because don't tell me, that there is one profession, that you don't need body parts for.
quite obviously I'm with Sic here.
I'm saying that circumstances that force woman to do it are dcirect results of prohibition of prostitution, and just because these circumstances exist doesn't mean that prostitution as a practice is bad. The great majority of prostitutes are simply proffesionals.
I agree but don't say "great majority". I shouldn't say "small minority", either, because there really isn't a study to back either of those up.
Betty
12-13-2004, 12:29 PM
I'll back you up on that one Vera... definitely works both ways.
There are more women whores than men not because they are forced into it but because women are inherently whores at heart. They enjoy nothing but having cum inside them. It's their biological goal, their destiny.
SicN Twisted
12-13-2004, 07:05 PM
I'd say great majority. There isn't any statistic about how many secretaries are filing men's papers because they're desperate, but nobody really cares. The circumstances you describe drive people to several occupations, like waitressing, and that doesn't make being a waitress an immoral practice. Have you ever visited a place where prostitution is legal? Most whores in Vegas and Amsterdam make pretty good livings. No matter what your moral views on sex are, it exists as a commity and if someone's good at it, they have the right to sell it.
Betty
12-13-2004, 09:17 PM
I wanted to be a waitress so badly this summer, well more a bartender. I think it would be so fun to try!
Anyway, it's not just about seeking the job out of desperation Sic, that's a totally valid point that there are plenty of other shitty jobs. But I think it's the people who are physically forced into doing it by other people. And I'm not sure how much of that goes on, but apparently it's significant.
SicN Twisted
12-13-2004, 09:26 PM
But it can't go on in state sanctioned brothels. If the government regulates it, such a scenario is impossible.
Betty
12-13-2004, 09:34 PM
Yeah, it would be much less... that part of the argument hadn't been brought up in a bit.
I'd still imagine some people would want to evade the regulations possibly, but I really don't know.
SicN Twisted
12-13-2004, 09:36 PM
I suppose it's possible, to the extent that anything is possible, but does that mean prostitution should be illegal? Or shouldn't coerced prostitution be illegal so legitimate prostitutes still have rights.
Betty
12-13-2004, 09:41 PM
I'm definitely saying it should be legal, at least that helps matters.
The only thing I was arguing was the majority point, but that's not really an argument anymore. I dropped it.
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