By the way, it's not homophobic to say someone sounds gay... not that I'm saying that Rodneymullin isn't homophobic (he probably is), but it's definitely not fair to jump to "homophobic" because of that.
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By the way, it's not homophobic to say someone sounds gay... not that I'm saying that Rodneymullin isn't homophobic (he probably is), but it's definitely not fair to jump to "homophobic" because of that.
You are wrong. So so wrong. I just don't have the time or patience to explain why.Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovellamas
Am I? Many people in the gay community use "gay" or "fag" in the same way. Hell, even I do. Last night, my sister's ex girlfriend and I were talking about old video game systems and we agreed that the coleco vision's game controllers look super gay... kinda hard to be homophobic when you yourself are gay... and not only gay people, but people who are fully supportive and actively campaign and vote for gay marriage use it. So I'm entirely unsure how saying "he sounds like a fag" automatically means that person is homophobic.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamSam
You sound like such a offspring fan when you say stuff like that. (that is, you sound like a raging imbecile. Because that's what the connotation for offspring fan is now.)
riiiiiiight.
Yes, I get the background of why people get all pc about it... it's "mean" to use "gay" as a synonym for "bad" or "stupid". But language evolves. Rape victims don't throw a fit over people saying "I got raped at the car dealership..." Just because "gay" has one meaning as "homosexual" doesn't mean that it can't carry another meaning as "stupid". "Fag" originally meant "bundle of sticks". We are fully capable of saying "that guy's a fag" only meaning "that guy is homosexual" without implying "that guy's a bundle of sticks". How is it so impossible to say "that's gay" meaning "that's stupid" without implying "that's homosexual"?
Sure, I get that "gay" became a synonym for "stupid" due to closed-minded idiots, but by acting offended by it and getting upset, we only perpetuate the problem. By letting language take its natural evolution and allowing "gay" to take on its new meaning, it loses that offensive angle. If only homophobes use it that way, people think it's offensive; if everyone uses it that way, they don't.
The thing that I truly don't understand is the fact that it seems to be mostly straight people who get upset about its usage (Hillary Duff starring in a commercial??). Most of the gay people I know don't care or even use it themselves.
I'm really amused that a conversation about the use of "gay" and "fag" is occurring in a thread about Blink 182 :P
considering the fact that the band members probably use them all the time, I'd say it qualifies as funny and Ironic.
But even so.
Yes they do. It doesn't make sense for you to just assume that another group of people wouldn't be offended by something when you're not standing in their place.Quote:
Rape victims don't throw a fit over people saying "I got raped at the car dealership..."
I'm willing to bet that If I made a thread about Whole Wheat Bread and then went on to say that I didn't like the singer's voice because he sings like a nigger people would be pretty fucking pissed at me, and rightfully so. And I don't think that this is so different. Because Tom most likely isn't homosexual, but to say that he sounds like one implying a bad connotation is disrespectful to people who are gay.
And It doesn't matter that fag used to mean bundle of sticks, or a cigarette in England because those things don't carry a negative effect. No one would be mad if I started calling all Mexicans chairs because it doesn't mean shit but I'd still be profiling them in my own fucked up way.
Your argument that we should allow gay to take on its new meaning is nonsensical because you're basically saying that it doesn't become harmful if everyone started using it. Maybe we should all incorporate the word cunt into our daily discourse because hey if everyone used it then it wouldn't be offensive anymore. This is analogous to saying that white people should be allowed to say the n word without drawing a negative response because if we said it all the time then it wouldn't mean anything anymore.
That's more or less what I was saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apathy
I meant that there isn't this huge butthurt uproar about it. I've never heard anyone get bitched out for the use of "rape" yet I hear it about "gay" all the damn time.Quote:
Yes they do. It doesn't make sense for you to just assume that another group of people wouldn't be offended by something when you're not standing in their place.
I'm not gonna get into my opinion on the use of the n word because that is just far too controversial. And I think the use of the n word is still leagues different from the use of gay.Quote:
I'm willing to bet that If I made a thread about Whole Wheat Bread and then went on to say that I didn't like the singer's voice because he sings like a nigger people would be pretty fucking pissed at me, and rightfully so. And I don't think that this is so different. Because Tom most likely isn't homosexual, but to say that he sounds like one implying a bad connotation is disrespectful to people who are gay.
I'm looking at it from a strictly linguistic point of view. Saying God damn you used to be highly offensive but now it's part of our colloquial and nobody cares about it. Here's a little passage about this:Quote:
And It doesn't matter that fag used to mean bundle of sticks, or a cigarette in England because those things don't carry a negative effect. No one would be mad if I started calling all Mexicans chairs because it doesn't mean shit but I'd still be profiling them in my own fucked up way.
"Most often, swear words grow less vulgar with time. Back in Shakespeare's day, when one's lineage mattered a lot more, the word bastard was so offensive it was often written "b-d." Contemporary readers might not recognize the power of a line like this one, spoken by Capt. MacMorris in Act III of Henry V: "What about my nation? Is my nation a villain, and a bastard, and a knave, and a rascal?" Meanwhile, shit was once a standard Old English word for feces. Today, it remains one of the most versatile vulgarities in our language. These days, you can be "shit-scared" (so scared you shit yourself), live in a "shit hole," or have "shit for brains" (be dumb). And, of course, the shit can also hit the fan. President Bush used another version when he told British Prime Minister Tony Blair that the United Nations needed to "get Syria to get Hezbollah to stop doing this shit."
Likewise for God damn and hell, which were considered so bad back in the 17th century that they were often spelled with dashes. Americans gradually softened their view on these words, but even in 1939, Gone With the Wind's Rhett Butler raised some eyebrows when he told Scarlett: "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn." Expressions like "It sucks the big one" and "That bites," which were offensive as recent as the 1960s, have also since lost their force.
Some linguists have observed that nigger, in reflection of the political sensitivities of the United States, has become one of our most intolerable words. Consider the public outcry that would have resulted if the vice president had called a political opponent a "nigger" instead of merely employing the F-word. The word wasn't always so charged, though. Early last century, it was considered slang for African-Americans, and an insult if applied to non-African-Americans, according to the 1926 edition of H.W. Fowler's Modern English Usage."
Point being that words lose their offensiveness when we allow them to take their course. If we suppress them they become more offensive, such as the n word.
Actually this is all true. If we all said cunt normally, it wouldn't be offensive anymore after a while. Just like bastard, God damn, shit, etc.Quote:
Your argument that we should allow gay to take on its new meaning is nonsensical because you're basically saying that it doesn't become harmful if everyone started using it. Maybe we should all incorporate the word cunt into our daily discourse because hey if everyone used it then it wouldn't be offensive anymore.
I don't think that we are understanding each other. Of course things become less offensive if everyone uses it. Of course language evolves over time.
That doesn't mean that people should go around promoting the use of words that are currently highly offensive.
Now that we've sufficiently derailed this thread:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/8/17/
http://www.thinkb4youspeak.com
What I don't really get is why we're discussing the use of the word fag on this particular BBS. Surely, we've all seen this word posted around here before, yes? Yet, this is the first homophobe accusation I've seen since Noodles/ninthz four years ago. If RODNEYMULLEN had said this in person (or maybe even elsewhere on the netz), I'd be annoyed, but here...it's like whatevs.
If we try to stop people from using it (in ways that are usually not said with ill intent), only people who are truly homophobic will use it, and that makes the word worse and worse. If everyone uses it freely and it's allowed to morph into its new meaning, that's the only way it'll stop being offensive at all. And quite frankly, the only times I've ever been offended by someone using "gay" to mean "stupid" was when the person was previously bashing gays and talking about hurting them or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apathy
[/quote]Now that we've sufficiently derailed this thread:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/8/17/
http://www.thinkb4youspeak.com[/QUOTE]
ahahahahhaa I love the one where the person is so upset about using God and Jesus and Lord in "offensive" ways... oh man.
Seriously!! People say things are gay, call people fags... I've never once been offended. I've even seen the n word thrown around here...Quote:
Originally Posted by randman21