No, it's not that! It will take dozens of pages talking about this,though. I 've been already tired even thinking of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovellamas
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No, it's not that! It will take dozens of pages talking about this,though. I 've been already tired even thinking of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovellamas
Weren't you the one who said that divorce shouldn't even be an option? I get this pseudo-religious, high-moral vibe off you... there is no reason to be against gender transition other than religion, or just thinking it's weird and it makes you uncomfortable and you just plain old don't understand it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it whatsoever. It doesn't affect anyone else, including you, it does zero harm, and if you actually sat down and really got to know a trans person, you'd see that they're just like you and me. The only difference is that you are physically the same sex as you are mentally/emotionally, while they have a conflict there. So what the heck is the big deal? I imagine you could give me a brief answer without going on for pages about it. Just an idea of what's so bad about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Defender
My english is not very good so I can't explain exactly my thoughts but you are wrong about me. There is nothing wrong with gender transition. This is a choice. Personal choice or option. I don't think this is wrong. I am against gender transition because I think the people that take this decision don't accept themselves. They don't love themselves the way they are,maybe. It's like somebody who can't face a problem and consume drugs or alcohol to feel better. Plastic surgery is another example for those who can't accept their appearance(face or whatever). As I said I don't think it's a bad decision because it's a "harmless" choice for themselves and for the others.Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovellamas
You don't know me. You say this because of what? Because I don't agree with you ? Or because we think in a different way?Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovellamas
How do you mentally/emotionally feel like a different gender?
Propagandhi: Refusing to be A Man: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx9UX72eMa0
Actually, I think Laura Jane's serious decision is one that accepts her for who she is. She is a woman; her body is currently male. She's been fighting against being a woman for her entire life and she's now accepting who she is and making her outside match her inside.Quote:
Originally Posted by Defender
This sort of thing is way too big a deal for a simple publicity stunt. She could have just made out with Kim Kardashian in public if she just wanted publicity. Coming out as transgendered opens you up to an incredible level of personal scrutiny, not to mention the risk of personal violence, and let's not forget her wife. I already thought Heather Gabel was awesome, and now I think she's even more awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by RageAndLov
Not sure that's something any of us could understand, not having experienced it ourselves. I had a friend who was on all kinds of psychiatric medication, history of suicide attempts, the whole nine yards....until the day she asked us to start calling her Ryan and using male pronouns. He emerged a completely normal person, with no further use for the medications he had been taking.Quote:
Originally Posted by bighead384
I was talking about the timbre of his/her voice. This leads me to wonder how her bandmates are taking it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovellamas
I have never been a big fan either. I just like this version of his song, a cover by two people after his death.Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_Miss_1565
No worries, man. I wasn't mad at you at all. Sorry if it came across that way - it's just that gender and sexuality politics have dominated a large part of my life for the last few years. I get pretty fired up about it sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by 0r4ng3
I don't think you can compare these things, for a few reasons:Quote:
Originally Posted by Defender
1) Drugs and alcohol are chemicals that temporarily alter your perception of things. They artificially mask pain. And in the meantime, they hurt your body and deteriorate your health. Transitioning doesn't hurt your body, it's not temporary, and it doesn't mask/alter your feelings and perceptions.
2) Transitioning is not just some plastic surgery to make yourself more attractive or because you think you're ugly. It is so, so much more than that.
3) It's not that they don't love themselves - people who get cosmetic surgery are not happy with the way they look. People who get a sex change are not happy because society forces them into a box. I get the feeling that maybe you connect gender and sex, when there is no connection. If you're physically born a male, but mentally, emotionally - in society - you feel like a female, to be true to yourself and accept who you are, you behave like how you feel, rather than conforming to acting how society decided (according to your physical biology) you should behave.
Response to both you and Defender here:Quote:
Originally Posted by bighead384
I can't speak for all trans people by any means, but I'll give an anecdote, from a friend/former girlfriend of mine who happens to be trans. She was born a man, and all her life, she had feminine tendencies. She liked dressing up, shaving her legs, wearing makeup, shopping, having long hair, and as a child, playing with Barbies, watching princess movies, etc. She didn't like the things boys liked, and she didn't like behaving like a boy. These things have NO connection to her physical biology. Having a penis doesn't mean that intrinsically, you feel like acting "like a boy". Now, there are tons of people (like me) who don't really behave how their gender is "supposed to", but we don't feel like we're the wrong sex. None of us can understand this part, because we've never felt it. My perception of it is that it's a much, much stronger "version" of what girls who are total tomboys feel, where it goes to a point where the person just simply does not feel like their gender matches their sex (I still feel like a girl, even though I'm not very feminine and don't behave very girlish). I see it as a spectrum - from people whose genders fit their sexes to a T (barbie girls/macho guys), to androgynous people, all the way over to people who feel their sex is the complete opposite of their gender. Hell, I'm more androgynous than the average girl, and I feel that if I acted super feminine, I wouldn't be accepting/being true to myself.
This friend of mine and I talked about this stuff a lot, and once I asked her if the operation was really necessary - why couldn't she just behave like a girl but have a man's body? She said she didn't really know how to explain it, but basically, the man's body was just a daily reminder that she wasn't "right", according to society. She said that knowing what she knows now, if she went back, maybe she wouldn't get the operation, but she felt it was necessary because society accepts physical females who act like girls, but not physical men who act like girls. In that regard, I blame society's perspective for being out of whack, and it's possible (again, can't speak for all trans people - this is just one person's story) that in the distant future, being gender queer will be so common and accepted that people won't feel the need to get operations anymore, because there will no longer be this "xx chromosomes? act like a girl. xy chromosomes? act like a boy." connection. But who knows?
Nah, because you've come out and made very strong statements supporting things that the type of people I described (pseudo-religious, high-moral) often make, without any explanation (hell, you said you're "against transgender", which is pretty strong and harsh... but maybe that was a poor word choice due to a language barrier?) But I know I don't know you, and that's why I said you "seem" like it, and not that you "are".Quote:
You don't know me. You say this because of what? Because I don't agree with you ? Or because we think in a different way?
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_Miss_1565
I totally agree. And if he did this for publicity, it would most likely be perceived as a slap in the face to many trans people, whether or not he was trying to support them. And hell yeah to his wife.Quote:
This sort of thing is way too big a deal for a simple publicity stunt. She could have just made out with Kim Kardashian in public if she just wanted publicity. Coming out as transgendered opens you up to an incredible level of personal scrutiny, not to mention the risk of personal violence, and let's not forget her wife. I already thought Heather Gabel was awesome, and now I think she's even more awesome.
Exactly. Same goes for my friend - she was suicidal until she transitioned, and now she's happy and successful.Quote:
Not sure that's something any of us could understand, not having experienced it ourselves. I had a friend who was on all kinds of psychiatric medication, history of suicide attempts, the whole nine yards....until the day she asked us to start calling her Ryan and using male pronouns. He emerged a completely normal person, with no further use for the medications he had been taking.
Wow, this is pretty shocking news. I've never been too interested with Against Me! but today I've even read opinions of their fans on their forums about that, and it's pretty cool that most of them is so supportive and stuff.
And I would never think that The Ocean is so serious.
It's weird.