This morning, I am asking myself questions

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10-25-2012
Paint_It_Black

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Originally Posted by Harleyquiiinn

Believe me, it is a great video.

I don't doubt you, I'm just not in a position to watch videos at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Harleyquiiinn

In that way, I feel like homosexuality is far less accepted for women than for men.

Another really good point that I missed earlier. I don't think I'd ever thought of it that way. The refusal to believe a woman is homosexual could easily be argued as more offensive than open hatred of a male homosexual because it continues the trend of condescension, objectification and marginalizing that women have long suffered from. Although any gay man who has been beaten simply for his sexual orientation might willingly trade places.
10-25-2012
RageAndLov

It's horrible that this even has to be discussed. Why is it so important for people to decide who others are going to marry as long it is a consenting adult? The ones against gay marriage won't be affected by two people of the same sex getting married,they can have their heterosexual marriage and be happy with that. Gay marriage won't change that.

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Originally Posted by Godxilla

I'm pro-marriage, AKA anti-gay-marriage.
But marriage is between two persons of the opposite sex. A civil union is anything else. And I think that we ought to deal with much more serious issues before yakking about gay marriage. In other words, leave TMZ- styled "gay gay gay" blather to TMZ.

Why are you against gay marriage?

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Originally Posted by Selena74

The Lord is still a huge part of who I am. You can't have someone else (or anything) dictate what you are to believe in.

Wait what? Isn't this oxymoron apparent to you?
10-25-2012
Llamas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harleyquiiinn

I absolutely disagree with this.

Men have no problems with women being gay, as long as they are gay FOR THEM. They like to see two girls kissing and having sex while looking at the camera with eyes thay say "you know, for real, I'd also love your cock".

But real lesbians ?

I noticed several times, talking to people around me that even for people scared of homosexuality, or who have a slight problem with it, there is a kind of acceptance when it is 2 men (I am not talking true homophobic assholes here... just... common men), like "whatever dude, as long as they don't try to get my ass".

But 2 girls ? Like if you get seriously into it ? They think a girl can never be a true homosexual. It's like "Oh... yeah... I like lesbians" *wink* *wink*

For most men, lesbian means "another kind of sexual object that tries to get attention of men by having sex with other women". Or in other cases, "women who couldn't find a man". It very very rarely means "woman who loves other women."

In societey, women are still seen as being meant to have sex with men and conceive children. They get less hate because it is more discrete. But it is there.

In that way, I feel like homosexuality is far less accepted for women than for men.

I totally see your point... however:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paint_It_Black

Although any gay man who has been beaten simply for his sexual orientation might willingly trade places.

I dunno, I often think I have it a bit easier as a gay person because I am a woman. You're right that people don't believe I'm truly gay, and it's really annoying to have men tell me I "just haven't found the right man" or "that's hot" or "can I watch?" and all that trite, annoying shit you hear ALL THE TIME when you're a gay woman. However, I don't fear getting beaten up, and I don't get called awful slurs. I usually get the "it's okay for a woman to be gay, but not a man", which is just an INSTANT "fuck off, asshole" response from a gay woman.
10-25-2012
Selena74

Quote:

Originally Posted by RageAndLov

It's horrible that this even has to be discussed. Why is it so important for people to decide who others are going to marry as long it is a consenting adult? The ones against gay marriage won't be affected by two people of the same sex getting married,they can have their heterosexual marriage and be happy with that. Gay marriage won't change

Wait what? Isn't this oxymoron apparent to you?

It is an oxymoron. You can have faith & not be confined by restraints & rules of religion. If having a moral code is wrong (being a good person, treating others with respect, not cheating on my husband, etc..) , consider me guilty. BTW, I totally agree with your top comment. :)
10-25-2012
WebDudette

Llamas, I thought you were somewhat into couldn't the right guy bring you around? Even if that is true, I'm just messing with you, I know were talking about assholes who think homosexuality is a choice and just see it as a challenge or whatever, somehow I imagine that's not the type of guy you'd be into.

Are all of these people homophobic? Probably not. They are however bigots with outdated values and ideals. Even though they like to believe that marriage and civil unions are the same, that's just not true, a religious marriage is really important to some gay people. If they truly thought it was the same thing, why object to gay marriage? Unless of course you think it devalues your own marriage, but why would you think that unless you disliked homosexuals? You know, maybe they are homophobic. I can't say for certain, but I'm not positive that civil unions in the states grant the same rights and benefits as marriages. Well actactually, I know for a fact they do not, because Civil Unioms are not recognized federally or in most states. What I mean though, is on a state by state level, do the ones who allow civil unions allow the same rights as a marriage?

I kissed a guy on the mouth last night who thinks being gay os a choice. I don't think that's relevant to any of this and as far as I know he supports gay marriage (though maybe not), I judt thought it was a funny anecdote. One kid at the party was raised Mormon, he had a face of just utter disbelief, it was awesome.

Oh, one more thing, even if being gay was a 'choice', so the fuck what? That'd be a perfectly reasonable choice to make.
10-25-2012
Paint_It_Black

Quote:

Originally Posted by Llamas

I'm truly gay, and it's really annoying to have men tell me I "just haven't found the right man" or "that's hot" or "can I watch?"

I believe you're truly gay. That's still hot. Can I watch?

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Originally Posted by Selena74

It is an oxymoron.

I think you probably meant to say isn't.

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Originally Posted by Selena74

You can have faith & not be confined by restraints & rules of religion.

I think you probably meant to say can't. Well no, you didn't, but you should have.

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Originally Posted by WebDudette

I kissed a guy on the mouth last night

That's hot. Can I watch?
10-25-2012
WebDudette

Yes PiB, of course.

Llamas, I've used the history book argument before. I'd like to think you know me well enough to know that it's not a major selling point for me, it is certainly not the reason I feel so strongly about marriage and sexual equality, but I think it can be a powerful tool in getting people to reconsider why they are so against gay marriage and maybe get them on the right path. I explained to one kid that interracial marriage had significantly less support when it was legalized than gay marriage has now. I didn't change his mind, but I still think it gave him a little something to think about.
10-26-2012
Llamas

Quote:

Originally Posted by WebDudette

Llamas, I thought you were somewhat into couldn't the right guy bring you around? Even if that is true, I'm just messing with you, I know were talking about assholes who think homosexuality is a choice and just see it as a challenge or whatever, somehow I imagine that's not the type of guy you'd be into.

Yeah, this is where things get all grey, because I'm not entirely sure. I don't think the right guy could bring me around, but I won't turn down a guy just because he's a guy. However, I haven't had any real feelings for a guy since I started dating girls, which makes me wonder how real those feelings ever were. It's been 7 years since I dated a guy even remotely seriously. Since then, I've slept with a few guys here and there, but that's it. I only date women now, and I only seem to fall for or have strong feelings for women. I don't know if I'm bi or gay, and it doesn't really matter all that much *to me* - but it matters to others, in terms of categorizing me. And you're right, imagining I wouldn't be into an asshole who thinks homosexuality is a choice ;) I actually tried dating a guy in January (who I was never that into, but I figured he seemed nice and cute and I could give it a try) who, upon finding out my sexuality, told me it's normal for women to be gay, but wrong and unnatural for men to be... and then told me he'll take that opinion to the grave with him. That quickly devolved into a dispute over the fact that I'm somewhat of a "feminist", which turned out to be a dirty word to him, and well, I guess it's obvious that I stopped dating him pretty quickly there :P

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What I mean though, is on a state by state level, do the ones who allow civil unions allow the same rights as a marriage?

No, they don't. And what else is strange is that straight people can't get civil unions in the states that have them. Which is all sorts of fucked up. I have a couple friends who want a civil union instead of a marriage, partially for tax reasons (they're opposed to the fact that marriage is TOO connected with the government), and partially because they strongly support equality and don't want something their friends can't have. And turns out, THEY can't get a civil union. What the fuck is that shit?

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I kissed a guy on the mouth last night who thinks being gay os a choice. I don't think that's relevant to any of this and as far as I know he supports gay marriage (though maybe not), I judt thought it was a funny anecdote. One kid at the party was raised Mormon, he had a face of just utter disbelief, it was awesome.

You whore ;) That is fantastic.

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Oh, one more thing, even if being gay was a 'choice', so the fuck what? That'd be a perfectly reasonable choice to make.

Haha, true. People just think it'd be a selfish one.

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Originally Posted by WebDudette

Llamas, I've used the history book argument before. I'd like to think you know me well enough to know that it's not a major selling point for me, it is certainly not the reason I feel so strongly about marriage and sexual equality, but I think it can be a powerful tool in getting people to reconsider why they are so against gay marriage and maybe get them on the right path. I explained to one kid that interracial marriage had significantly less support when it was legalized than gay marriage has now. I didn't change his mind, but I still think it gave him a little something to think about.

Sure, there's a difference between people who say it to others to get them to think a bit deeper, but then there are some who seem to use it as their primary argument. And those are the people who piss me off. You're not one of them, don't worry ;) I actually find the majority of the people here at the BBS to be the "good" kinds of allies for LGBT.
10-26-2012
WebDudette

Okay, so kind of in the same vein as religious people who think the only reason anyone could ever be moral is caused by fear of eternal damnation. These people are only pro-equality because they don't want everyone to think they're giant assholes.
10-26-2012
Llamas

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Originally Posted by WebDudette

Okay, so kind of in the same vein as religious people who think the only reason anyone could ever be moral is caused by fear of eternal damnation. These people are only pro-equality because they don't want everyone to think they're giant assholes.

Sure, that's a pretty good analogy. Sadly, they exist in bigger numbers than I'd like to imagine.

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