Should liberals be "nice" people?

I wish people would just be more realist about the presidents. When Bush was in office, he was "going to start world war 3, the worst president in history, and he secretly planned 9/11 as an inside job!" But now that Obama is president, all the same hyperbolic criticism just slides over to him --- now Obama is "the worst president ever, he's gonna put white people in concentration camps, he's gonna take all the white people's money and give it to black people, he's gonna absolutely destroy the economy, he's going to destroy America." There's a facebook page called "We survived Bush, you'll survive Obama." For better or worse, I feel like that's the most realistic thing that's been said about either presidency in awhile.

I mean, I've lost some of the faith I had in Obama since he's been in the White House, but I didn't like Bush that much to begin with, anyway. And honestly, right after Bush, I was ready for ANYONE who wasn't Bush, so I was willing to overlook a few things in another candidate, just because Bush was so extremely the opposite of most things I believed. Some of that has worn off in the last 4 years, but not all of it --- I still REMEMBER Bush, is the thing, and he DID wreck the economy quite a bit, and so when Republicans criticize Obama for doing things that are basically part of the official Republican platform (like using unconstitutional means to violate civil rights of US citizens -- even Mitt Romney said he approved of Obama's drone program and the use of drones to execute US citizens abroad), and then turn and say that Republicans are preferable to Obama, I find that amusing and hypocritical.

I can understand not being happy with Obama, but wanting another Republican in office is just confounding to me.

Bush at least would work with people. He actually was kind of a stupid nice. Bush had the 2001 911 crisis months intop his presidency. People wanted answers. Bush was in some ways forced into what some consider, bad policy. Obama is so frigging sly handed and just spews dishonesty. He wants to bury us in debt yet was against raising the DC in 2006 during the Bush years. Saying it was a failure in leadership. Yet Obama plays hardball and keeps just fucking burying us and piling on more debt faster than anyone in history...by far. Where are the results? Where is HIS leadership? Where is the "nice" guy who wanted open discussion and everything out in the open in 2008. Simple, Obama is a friggin liar. Worse than any president preceding him. I mean, how the hell do you get out of $17,000,000,000,000 in debt all the while you are breeding people like fucking dipshit lemmings to rely on a government that in no possible way can sustain this type of spending?

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Originally Posted by MOTO13

Liberals are not nice people.

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You can't categorize all liberals and say they are not nice people. That's like me saying all conservatives are assholes. It's not true. They are nice liberals and they are also asshole liberals. You have nice conservatives and also asshole conservatives. Your political views doesn't make you a nice/mean person. It's how you treat people that defines you as a nice/mean person.

I'm surprised you guys don't end up assassinating more of your presidents with all the hate towards them, regardless of their party.

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Obama plays hardball and keeps just fucking burying us and piling on more debt faster than anyone in history...by far

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Case in point. That's just not true. Bush started two illegal foreign wars that ultimately added up to a cost of over a trillion dollars. That alone dwarfs much of what Obama has done. And the big supposed drain on the deficit, the Affordable Care Act/Obamacare, actually reduces the deficit due to tax increases used to pay for some of its expenditures. Obama is guilty of a lot of things economically (he's basically a moderate Republican in terms of actual policy), but acting as if Bush (or even Romney, or any other recent Republican candidate for that matter) would've done any different is just not true.

And if Bush was "forced into bad policy," you could say the same for Obama, as every time he's tried to introduce his own policies, he gets stonewalled by Republicans (and even some Democrats). Granted, I don't believe that for a second, but you could make that argument if you were being generous to Obama.

EDIT: For what it's worth, as a hardcore lib, I WISH Obama would play hardball more. He could've done pretty much anything he wanted to with the mandate from the public after the election, and he still played the whole "Ah, I can't because the Republicans don't want to."

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Originally Posted by Static_Martyr

Case in point. That's just not true. Bush started two illegal foreign wars that ultimately added up to a cost of over a trillion dollars. That alone dwarfs much of what Obama has done. And the big supposed drain on the deficit, the Affordable Care Act/Obamacare, actually reduces the deficit due to tax increases used to pay for some of its expenditures. Obama is guilty of a lot of things economically (he's basically a moderate Republican in terms of actual policy), but acting as if Bush (or even Romney, or any other recent Republican candidate for that matter) would've done any different is just not true.

And if Bush was "forced into bad policy," you could say the same for Obama, as every time he's tried to introduce his own policies, he gets stonewalled by Republicans (and even some Democrats). Granted, I don't believe that for a second, but you could make that argument if you were being generous to Obama.

EDIT: For what it's worth, as a hardcore lib, I WISH Obama would play hardball more. He could've done pretty much anything he wanted to with the mandate from the public after the election, and he still played the whole "Ah, I can't because the Republicans don't want to."

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Nothing compares to what Obama has done spending wise. Then take into account the results we have. He specifically spent money in ways he said would help (laughter) the economy. Results? Fucking laughable. The ACA has areas we have not even seen to take effect, but MANY states have sued to get rid of it based upon what is in the law. Businesses are already downsizing to fewer than 50 employees and 30 hours. Go make a good living at that.

Obama was never forced into one thing. NONE. He blew the ACA through in a late night totally partisan vote. Obama finger points to everyone but himself. He campaigns and does not govern. His own party rejected his joke attempt at a budget a few years ago. He was going to be this great new light...one problem, he's a dim bulb.

He has to work with the other party. He won't. He had FULL control from 2008-2010, that's why ACA went through. Now he HAS to work with others, here we sit. Your president can't get anything done because his entire premise is fucked up. We don't have a spending problem. Tell that to your kids when they are paying down this debt that is out of control.

So I stop posting and people revert back to not-sourcing their arguments?

Cool. I heard you are both woefully wrong.

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Originally Posted by wheelchairman

So I stop posting and people revert back to not-sourcing their arguments?

Cool. I heard you are both woefully wrong.

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I can wiki paste all day. Boring. Opinion is what life is all about. All based on fact but with some of your own thoughts possibly. When you have a conversation with someone do say..."oh, by the way, according to Hoyle...blabitty fucking blah..." "Know what?, according to Dick at ABC news, Obama's an asshole." No you don't. I don't either.

Anyway, it's not so much an argument as it is me being entertaining...

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Originally Posted by MOTO13

I can wiki paste all day. Boring. Opinion is what life is all about. All based on fact but with some of your own thoughts possibly. When you have a conversation with someone do say..."oh, by the way, according to Hoyle...blabitty fucking blah..." "Know what?, according to Dick at ABC news, Obama's an asshole." No you don't. I don't either.

Anyway, it's not so much an argument as it is me being entertaining...

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Oh you are being entertaining, but baiting Static Martyr with politics is a little on the easy side.

It was mostly the facts you guys were stating that should be sourced, was Bush more cooperative over the aisle, and was that due to Bush being more cooperative or Democrats? Blah blah etc. Opinions don't need sources.

My point actually had very little to do with the petty politics of the situation; I just get sick of hearing people say "OMG WORST PRESIDENT EVAR!!" every single time Obama does anything. It was annoying when people did it under Bush, and it's annoying now. It seems like people can't even TRY to discuss things realistically anymore. The slightest comment made in support of (or against) Obama sparks a massive flamewar/argument over who's more of a commie and who's more anti-American. It makes me not ever want to talk about anything with anyone at all.