Misogyny in General Media

[Rag Doll]

So, I'm currently in the process of writing the senior thesis for one of my majors to earn one of my BAs. I've decided to focus on misogyny in music. I kind of want to get a feel for how others that are roughly my age (and aren't in the same areas of study that I am) feel about it. Do you have a problem with sexist lyrics in music? Do you have a problem with violence against women in music? Or uses of words like "cunt" and "whore" in songs? Or do you have any other thoughts about it? I just have one request. Please don't turn this thread into a whole bunch of "fuck bitches" comments, unless that's how you really feel. Thanks.

*I'm also super appreciative of any songs that anyone may come across that you think might relate to what I'm talking about. I have quite a few, but I'm always looking for more, with all different styles of music. Thanks again.

*EDITTT*
The original thread is http://www.offspring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31707
This was created to stop the derailing of that specific thread, so all forms of media can be discussed here, with no limitations =)

[nieh]

Lyrics are normally one of the last things I pay attention to, so it's possible for me to like a song even if the lyrics are misogynistic, but normally if it's overt it does make it difficult for me to listen to.

[0r4ng3]

Yeah, sometimes my lyrics are a little bit sexist
but you lovely bitches and hoes should know I'm trying to correct this.

Um, also what nieh said.

[SuperKnux]

Cool, thanks for this thread Rag Doll.

Um, over the past year or so I've more then definitely become somewhat of a feminist. I draw and write (crappy) poetry that often deals with misogyny, violence against women, women’s rights, and sort of exposes the patriarchy society that we’ve (for whatever reason) have accepted.

Now, I love music. I love rock 'n roll too much to let it go. But yes, there is a lot of misogyny in music. I mean yeah, it's in rap mostly which is a little bother some since everybody is dancing to it in the clubs but I know it goes far more than that. As an artist, I’m constantly doing artwork that depicts violent imaginary, often extreme forms of sex, and there is a lot of gore in my work. I’m sure conservatives will find my work to be offensive. (It has happened several times before, unfortunately.) But the thing of the matter is, that is my work. That is how I choose to express myself and my ideas. I don’t draw for other people. I do what I feel I should do and I think that if somebody like Eminem wants to write a song like “Kill You” or “Kim” then he can do that. Who am I to tell him what he can or can not do? Yes, his music is offensive. Yes, it’s hard to listen too. But that is his artwork. Nobody is physically getting harmed from it like in say underground (or mainstream) pornography in which women are getting hurt and abused (at times violently).

Same thing applies to the likes of Seth McFarlane (the guy who does Family Guy) and of course Sin City writer Frank Miller. If you watch Family Guy you’ll notice that Seth has this like huge hatred towards women. I’m sure not many viewers know that, because the show is pretty low in standards to begin with and the majority love it to death. Yes, the show is offensive but again, women aren’t being physically raped or abused. You also have a choice. You can sit there and watch the show and get mad at it all the 23 minutes it runs, or you can change the channel and not watch it at all.

I do think these things do have an influence on the public, however. Especially little kids and teens who do listen to Akon, Eminem, The Beatles (they’re pretty misogynist), or The Rolling Stones. Shows like Family Guy also influence a lot of kids and that does create a problem. But alas, as an artist, that is how they choose to express themselves so I must not get in the way of that. People need to be smart though about what it is their message is and that they understand what it can do to women in the long run.

There is a lot of music and movies that I like that are offensive to women and even me. Pulp Fiction, Fight Club, Sin City, and Boogie Nights just to name a few. But I like those movies because of other things. It does offend me, but they’re all (for being Hollywood) really well executed and fantastically directed movies. In the end it comes down too being educated. More people need to understand that we can’t treat women (or people for that matter) like shit. We need to treat everyone with respect so they’d be less “lolol shut up bitch” and “dude id fuck her” comments on YouTube and the country.

[nieh]

If you watch Family Guy you’ll notice that Seth has this like huge hatred towards women.

The characters and situations he creates for the show are intentionally wrong for the sake of humor which occasionally includes sexist behavior, but that doesn't mean he's sexist. He also has a pedophile character but that doesn't mean Seth wants to have sex with little boys. He's mentioned in the past that his ideals and political leanings are closest to that of Brian in that he's incredibly liberal.

[JohnnyNemesis]

The characters and situations he creates for the show are intentionally wrong for the sake of humor which occasionally includes sexist behavior, but that doesn't mean he's sexist.

I think that's exactly what it means. He may not mean to be sexist, but exploiting such serious shit and trivializing it in such a way is dismissive and, in essence, such an act is sexist.

[nieh]

But he's that way with everything, no more with females than with males or different races or sexualities or psychological disorders or religions. They go so over the top with everything that it gets pushed way, way past the realm of having any bearing in reality and beyond that, I've always come away with the idea that Seth is making fun of the male chauvanists (Peter) and womanizers (Quagmire) more than the ideas of chauvanism and womanizing.

[Sunny]

so i feel like a bit of a hypocrite, because even though i am generally bothered by sexist tv shows or sexist advertising, i let misogynist stuff slip when it comes to music. honestly, sometimes i don't even realize what i'm listening to/singing along to... then it hits me what they're actually saying and it's like "whoa, that's wrong". yet if i enjoy the tune, the lyrical content of the song won't completely turn me off to it. i feel like i'm almost desensitized to it... especially since so many songs on the radio are all about "bitches" and "hoes".

for some reason, eminem singing about killing his wife doesn't bother me as much as the objectification/female submission that's basically all over the radio. maybe it's because no one is going to take eminem's "bitch i'ma kill you" seriously (well, most people, at least). however, the message that women are only as good as their orifices is much more common, and i feel like it has much more impact than the really violent stuff. perhaps because it's totally accepted and omnipresent. like, kids practice dance moves to soulja boy (superman that ho, anyone?)

here's some lyrics that i found problematic/relevant to your question.

"Long hair big lips
Little doll frame round her plastic tits
She's automatic and super clean
Little bang baby all American dream" - "sex machine", dope

der.

"I'm a menace, a dentist, an oral hygienist
Open your mouth for about four or five minutes
Take a little bit of this fluoride rinse
Swish but don't spit it, swallow and I'll finish
Yeah me and Nate d-o-g-g
Looking for a couple bitches with some double D's
Pop a little champagne and a couple E's
Slip it in her bubbly, we gonna have a party" - eminem/nate dogg, "shake that"

wait... i thought slipping stuff in people's drinks was also known as "date rape", not "party". whoops.

"Not a eight and not a nine, grade you more than just a dime
Bentley steering wheel body, cause you look better from behind
Grip around your waist turn it, like I'm just trying to get a better view
Cause God must of been working hard, when he assembled you
I'm trying to test drive, your rear and your shape
And I'm power steering your waist, and I see your rear is in shake
If you thought I couldn't handle it, then you're really mistaken
No one here to keep you near, then you're here for the taking" - chamillionaire, "grown and sexy"

i actually like that song (shame, shame), but comparing the girl to a luxury car...basically, a really pretty object/accessory.. yeah, sick.

[JohnnyNemesis]

But he's that way with everything, no more with females than with males or different races or sexualities or psychological disorders or religions.

I know what you mean, but I've never understood why people say this as a way to claim that someone/something isn't a sexist/racist or whatever, when in my opinion, that just proves he's racist, sexist, and all sorts of phobic, even if he thinks he's not.

[wheelchairman]

You can find a great deal of misogyny in folk music. Women tricking men (The Black Velvet Band), etc. Typical rooted-in-the-bible-distrust type stories.

I wouldn't go so far as calling it misogyny though since these are very old songs, and correcting them would simply be historical chauvinism.

In contemporary music I haven't heard it. However stuff like Danko Jones or Sage Francis could be interpreted that way, I'd be much more inclined to understand it not as misogyny but more as observations, or feelings of bitterness. I wouldn't however call it lasting (since the opposite also appears in their discographies or even on the same cd, an emotional state right after a relationship, or an attempt at getting at the same emotional state in order to convey a feeling in a song.)

I don't really listen to Eminem though, so I can't comment. However in these instances what can be seen as mysogyny might simply be the irrational feelings a person has after such emotional breakdowns.

Or it might be ironic. Either way if I were to listen to music that turned women into commodities, well it would really seem like empty thoughtless music wouldn't it? How many people truly listen to it for the lyrics? How much thought did the artist actually put into the lyrics?

Fight Club is offensive to women? wtf? No seriously, wtf?