I've had a lot of really great religion conversations with people my own age. Most young Christians believe in "intelligent design" more than "god created man and all existence." While there are a plethora of people trying to force their ideals on you and turning a blind eye to all logic, I don't think this makes up much of the religious population. Some people need something to believe in. Scoff if you will, but belief that God has a plan and will keep you safe is what helps so many make it through hardship.
My family on my dad's side is religious, but not forcefully so. I was given the choice to not go to church at 9 so I stopped because it didn't work for me. I haven't heard a word about it since. Just knowing that people are praying for my dad and my family has helped my stepmom keep it together since my dad wrecked his motorcycle (it'll be a while, but he'll be alright). I don't think those prayers are helping him heal, but I think they give my stepmom strength that she wouldn't have otherwise.
Also, my only real beef with Islam is the separation of young men and women. Not even the treatment of women really upsets me as much because, should the separation stop, men would learn from women about how they should be better treated. As far as religions go, they are a pretty peaceful people.
I would've brought up the new theories about gravity, but PiB did it first. Its a real mindtrip though.
Firstly, awesome post Richard, I found myself nodding my head in agreement more so than I have at any post on this board in a very long time, however I'm pressed for time today, so I'm only going to reply to a few shorter things right now, but I'll be back...
However, I still believe, if I was raised without any Religion, and was educated on it, with no past prejudice, I would still find the concept completely ludicrous. I don't see why the (albeit rather immature) point that believing in God is comparible to believing in the Easter Bunny or Peter Pan, or Batman, is so quickly disregarded, because it's completely true.
That's not what I was doing, but it certaintly is a contributing factor, like I mentioned to Randy. I'm well aware Religion has good effects, both personally in single cases of people, and occasionally over a wide-spread issue. Alot of charities are Religiously based, alot of people do alot of good things with Religion as their inspiration, and I absolutely commend them for it.I think people are always quick to justify their dislike or religions or atheism based on 'I grew up here' or 'This is what I've experienced'. Which of course is fair enough, it's just you'd think that if you grew up in a heavily religious society, that you'd be able to discern some positive things from religion.
The fact that you view it entirely as harmful to society, I would suggest means that your view is heavily prejudiced or dogmatic. Because of course there are benefits to religion, and not being able to see them is..well prejudice.
The fact of the matter still boils down to them being good people, and their beliefs being that of a fucking nut job. That, and while not playing down Religions good effects, it in no way out-weights it's bad effects, and I think even any rational Religious person, handed a list of things Religion has to take responsibility for, good and bad, could not disagree.
Personally, no, I can see little to no benefits Religion has had on my society, you spent some time here once, right? What is good about literal, physical segregation between communities based on Religion, and even though alot of the people here, don't believe in a God, they've just been raised in a hateful society, and can't let go of their bigotry and hatred of 'the other side' which has been caused by Religious (and spawned into Political) differences.
But again, I'd really like to stress, that while it is obviously a big part of it, and possibly my main dislike for Christianity, it is *not* the overall cause of my complete disregard for all Religion. Which spawns from critical thinking, research, and discussions with overtly Religious people, which I can only liken to discussing with a wall.
I did it all for the lulz.
I agree with Per. I could go on and on listing the reasons why, but the general idea is that my main problem stems with the organization of Semitic religions rather than their substance.
It also seems like that's the problem with most of you guys, and you've spread your anger at doctrinal organization first to the belief system you were enclosed in, and then to ALL belief systems. It's entirely possible that there's nothing wrong with that - but I haven't seen you guys try to bring the smack down on Shinto.
Some religions have dangerous elements - no one is disputing that. In Malaysia raids happen under Sharia law to take Muslims from nightclubs and bars, in order that they might be 'properly reeducated.' In India the caste system (which debateably evolved concurrently with Hinduism rather than because of it) causes ongoing social problems to this day and is still a factor in political elections.
Oh, look at me. I've started. I guess I'll continue now.
There are good sides to religion. The ideals of the Good Samaritan are supposed to exist in nearly every modern religion. I find it hard to object to Jesus' ethical stances even if I shrug off the moral righteousness the Church has taken on. Confucianism (a quasi-religion in this instance) has the Ethic of Reciprocity, Buddhism has the first five precepts of Sila (which, from Wikipedia which is an unreliable source, is an action that is 'an intentional effort' to be charitable), while Baha'i is specifically devoted to embracing every religious prophet through time and emphasizing the unity of humankind.
These are important ideals - and good ones. Religion is not necessary to come to these conclusions, but are you really telling me that you are going to criticize them for espousing and emphasizing humaneness and compassion? It is near-universal.
Before you get high and mighty about what I've just said with me, please remember what I said - I am not religious, but my rejection of churches comes mostly from the unwieldy and contradictory conduct exhibited by Semitic organizations, rather than the ideals they make available to people. The examples I gave are but one part of doctrine - there are plenty of counters. These ideals, however, are what keep people going.
Thibault's New Music Site!
Originally Posted by wheelchairman
the former Pope did indeed declare evolution as a fact, which is what i was referring to.
Now, about gravity... well, that's just too much. I mean, it could be true, but i'm gonna wait a bit longer for some solid proofs, or at least until somebody finds an explanation which wouldn't require being a physics expert in order to understand it.
These posts are all so long. I'll read them as soon as I wake up.
I wrote a four word letter.
You guys are awesome... just, uh, unoriginal.
[on topic] Religion can be good or bad. Depends. Hate it? Sure you will if you had bad experience with it. Love it? Sure, why not, if it makes your life easier/enjoyable/better etc.[/on topic]
You all knew basically everything others posted here all along. For real. And if I had to elaborate on the subject, I'd do it the same way as you guys. That's what bores me.
Would "dead horse fucking" tag be too harsh/inappropriate?
Before you speak think about what you're trying to say.
Who else is there to blame for miscommunication?
But getting together to share common thoughts and beliefs that you only really want reinforced (rather than discussed) is awesome!
Though I suppose perhaps that was the original point of this thread.
Should a/anti-theism be considered a religion? We have morals and codes of conduct, a firm belief about God and can't possibly accept that those who differ in that belief aren't complete fucking fruitnuts. Some may even be driven to murder in the name of their beliefs (there's only so much unsolicited salvation of oneself that some people can take...).
If you don't talk about common interests and express opinions, there would be no reason for friends.
Last edited by WebDudette; 08-01-2010 at 06:24 PM.
I wrote a four word letter.