"Highway" Robbery

[Llamas]

Secondly, I guess I'll say what I think so people don't think I'm more extreme that I am. I'm opposed to how free our health care is. This is mainly because I'm rarely ever use the health care system. I've always been really healthy. Since I'm barely affected by it, the main reason I'm opposed to it is because I end up paying for something that I'll never use.

Have you ever used the fire department? I haven't, yet my taxes have gone to it my entire life. I also have rarely needed the police for anything, but I'm glad they exist if I ever did. Anyone can get get sick. Is the reason you haven't needed the hospital because you've done such a good job of making sure you don't get leukemia? A lot of diseases aren't a result of living a shitty lifestyle, and you can't really prevent. A friend of a friend of mine had his eye gouged, to a point where it needed to be removed, during a friendly match of soccer once. He was a legal immigrant to the US, and my friend raised donations to try to pay for the guy's $20,000 medical bill so that the guy could go to the doctor.

Some people (like you and me) are lucky because we haven't really needed the doctor. I've only gone a few times in my life, for things like my sleep disorder, an on-going problem with my left ear, and a time I fell while running for the bus and the wounds on my knees got infected. For all of these things, I wouldn't have been able to go if I hadn't been provided with health insurance. I surely pay more through taxes for my insurance than I use, but I'm okay with that.

By the way, you say you're upset that you pay for something you don't use; so if it wasn't public in Canada, you just wouldn't have health insurance at all? If you got private insurance, you'd still be paying for something you don't use... and if you were in the US, you couldn't just wait until you got a disease, due to the "pre-existing condition" clauses. It's dangerous to go without health insurance.

[KickHimWhenHe'sDown]

Have you ever used the fire department? I haven't, yet my taxes have gone to it my entire life. I also have rarely needed the police for anything, but I'm glad they exist if I ever did. Anyone can get get sick. Is the reason you haven't needed the hospital because you've done such a good job of making sure you don't get leukemia? A lot of diseases aren't a result of living a shitty lifestyle, and you can't really prevent. A friend of a friend of mine had his eye gouged, to a point where it needed to be removed, during a friendly match of soccer once. He was a legal immigrant to the US, and my friend raised donations to try to pay for the guy's $20,000 medical bill so that the guy could go to the doctor.

Some people (like you and me) are lucky because we haven't really needed the doctor. I've only gone a few times in my life, for things like my sleep disorder, an on-going problem with my left ear, and a time I fell while running for the bus and the wounds on my knees got infected. For all of these things, I wouldn't have been able to go if I hadn't been provided with health insurance. I surely pay more through taxes for my insurance than I use, but I'm okay with that.

By the way, you say you're upset that you pay for something you don't use; so if it wasn't public in Canada, you just wouldn't have health insurance at all? If you got private insurance, you'd still be paying for something you don't use... and if you were in the US, you couldn't just wait until you got a disease, due to the "pre-existing condition" clauses. It's dangerous to go without health insurance.

Good points. I guess it has its benefits and like you mentioned, I would be paying something health-care related regardless of if it was in my taxes to the government or not. I guess the socialist side of it must be what bugs me. Oh yeah, and the extremely long wait times for the odd few times I have needed a doctor.

[Llamas]

I guess the socialist side of it must be what bugs me.

Hmm, can you elaborate on that? I hear "socialist" touted as a dirty word, but simply the fact that it's a "socialist" attribute isn't a reason that it's bad. What about the fact that it's "socialist" bugs you?

Oh yeah, and the extremely long wait times for the odd few times I have needed a doctor.

In my experience (I had private insurance in college in the US, and public insurance in Europe), it's annoying if you go to the hospital here during peak hours, because yeah you have to wait. But the awesome thing is that the hospitals are open 24/7, so I just go when it's not busy, and then I'm in and out super fast. I'm a big fan of not having to make an appointment, and just going when I have time. Is it not possible to go during non-peak hours in Canada?

[KickHimWhenHe'sDown]

Hmm, can you elaborate on that? I hear "socialist" touted as a dirty word, but simply the fact that it's a "socialist" attribute isn't a reason that it's bad. What about the fact that it's "socialist" bugs you?

That's a long conversation. Brief summary: I just prefer to have less things regulated by the government. I like the independence of capitalism. The socialist bit of it bugs me just because I think the government has too much power.

Is it not possible to go during non-peak hours in Canada?

I live in a town that's grown to a population of around 25000 that doesn't even have a hospital. It actually has a "Health and Wellness Center". It have no clue what time it closes or if it does, but it's always peak hours.

[Llamas]

That's a long conversation. Brief summary: I just prefer to have less things regulated by the government. I like the independence of capitalism. The socialist bit of it bugs me just because I think the government has too much power.

Fair enough. I agree that's a long conversation, and not appropriate for this thread. Thanks for responding.

I live in a town that's grown to a population of around 25000 that doesn't even have a hospital. It actually has a "Health and Wellness Center". It have no clue what time it closes or if it does, but it's always peak hours.

Hmm, something tells me then, that if your town did have a private hospital, it'd be really hard to get an appointment, anyway... I don't think having public health care is the reason for this.

[KickHimWhenHe'sDown]

Fair enough. I agree that's a long conversation, and not appropriate for this thread. Thanks for responding.

No problem, thanks for listening.

Hmm, something tells me then, that if your town did have a private hospital, it'd be really hard to get an appointment, anyway... I don't think having public health care is the reason for this.

I suppose. I'll just keep trying not to get sick or hurt myself so I don't have to think about it

Edit: That sounded rude. I did read what you had to say and thought about it. I don't really disagree either.

[XYlophonetreeZ]

Thanks for replying, KickHim.

My view is mostly in line with llamas', and I often point to the police and fire departments as well- which have always been "socialized."

The one thing I have to point out is that when people say "grumble grumble Obamacare grumble grumble SOCIALISM," is that having socialized healthcare- and Obama's plan isn't even 100% socialized, nor is it entirely Obama's plan- does not make the US, or Canada, a socialist country. My personal view is that while I haven't had very many reasons to spend my own money on healthcare personally either, I certainly could at anytime, and almost surely will when I get older. I also can't think of many better destinations for my tax dollars than making sure people aren't denied health care.

I've heard the bit about the long lines that jacknife mentioned, though, and understand it's even worse in Germany. I'm not sure whether we'd necessarily see that under "Obamacare," but if long lines simply mean that treatment is prioritized by urgency rather than by someone's economic class, then I'm all for 'em.

[Llamas]

Thanks for replying, KickHim.

My view is mostly in line with llamas', and I often point to the police and fire departments as well- which have always been "socialized."

The one thing I have to point out is that when people say "grumble grumble Obamacare grumble grumble SOCIALISM," is that having socialized healthcare- and Obama's plan isn't even 100% socialized, nor is it entirely Obama's plan- does not make the US, or Canada, a socialist country. My personal view is that while I haven't had very many reasons to spend my own money on healthcare personally either, I certainly could at anytime, and almost surely will when I get older. I also can't think of many better destinations for my tax dollars than making sure people aren't denied health care.

I'm in agreement with this, and furthermore, I don't think socialism is a bad thing. I don't think it's any worse than any version of capitalism that exists in the world. Ultimately, I think the best system is a healthy balance between socialism and capitalism, kinda like how it's done in some Nordic countries.

I've heard the bit about the long lines that jacknife mentioned, though, and understand it's even worse in Germany. I'm not sure whether we'd necessarily see that under "Obamacare," but if long lines simply mean that treatment is prioritized by urgency rather than by someone's economic class, then I'm all for 'em.

I dunno if it's really different in Germany than it is in Czech, but I went to the dr twice in Czech and barely had to wait. The first time, I went around 9pm and waited about 20-30 minutes to get in. The second time, I went to the ENT during the day and waited even less time - about 10 minutes. I'm sure you have to wait a lot longer if you need to see a GP or something in the middle of the day, but still... I don't know anyone there who had to wait more than an hour to get in.