The Second Amendment

[MOTO13]

I'm fine with people owning guns. But *guns*, not assault-style rifles, not 100-count clips. The 2nd Amendment referred to "well-regulated militia"s, which unfortunately does not apply to most of the screaming douchebags on TV lately going on about how Obama's coming for your BB guns (spoiler alert: he isn't).

I'd also like to see training requirements and recertification required every couple years in order to get your gun license. Well-regulated, after all.

They are not douchebags...they want their rights upheld. At any one time Obama and all the other hollywood types are surrounded with guns. Hell, Obama just signed on order for SS for life. SS is basically full on, gun toating protection for himself and wife...for LIFE. Apparently he feels guns are OK as long as they protect his dumb ass. What gun license are you talking about?

Assault rifles are basically guns with pistol grips and high capacity clips. Limit clip size to 20 rounds...fine. That really doesn't bother me. A well armed civilian population is one of the best defenses from someone invading our country. You may not like that idea, but it is a fact. We ever get invaded, anyone w/o guns will be running to someone with guns.

[Godxilla]

"An armed population is a polite population" ~ I forget who said that, but I think it was Twain.

I saw a news story of a woman in Texas who shot a man who was stealing her purse. According to reports, she shot him 6 times. When asked why she had to shoot him 6 times, she said it was because when she pulled the trigger a seventh time, she was out of ammo. Nuff sed.

My dad saw a story of a kid in a school who brought in a gun and started shooting. He didn't anyone, though. You know why? Because the principal pulled out his own gun and shot the student dead.

An armed population is a polite population. Got it?

[Llamas]

"An armed population is a polite population" ~ I forget who said that, but I think it was Twain.

God, I'm getting sick of all the misinformation coming from pro-gun advocates. How hard is it to type that quote in Google to see who it was? Twain? Are you kidding me? Twain was super liberal and extremely non-violent.

I saw a news story of a woman in Texas who shot a man who was stealing her purse. According to reports, she shot him 6 times. When asked why she had to shoot him 6 times, she said it was because when she pulled the trigger a seventh time, she was out of ammo. Nuff sed.

A purse thief deserves punishment, like prison or something; a purse thief does not deserve to die. That is bullshit. Shooting a man 6 times because he tried to take her purse? Are you fucking kidding me??

My dad saw a story of a kid in a school who brought in a gun and started shooting. He didn't anyone, though. You know why? Because the principal pulled out his own gun and shot the student dead.

Fantastic idea. Let's get all the teachers armed, so when a teacher has a bad day and loses her shit, she has easy access to a gun. I had more than one teacher growing up that I would NOT have wanted to have access to a gun during school. Holy shit. Even worse is the fact that children always want what's off limits. You lock up guns and kids are gonna take every chance they have to get to those guns. And kids are smarter than you think. Unless you wanna invest a shitload of money in steel vaults for every single classroom in every single school in the US. That sounds like a good use of tax money.

[Static_Martyr]

If it weren't true the government would have taken away the abaility to own gons long ago.

So it's only a right because the government lets it be a right? So I guess you don't have a right to trial by jury, then, since we've executed civilians overseas (using drone strikes) without trial.

It's a friggin right. Agree with it or not...doesn't even matter. It's a 2nd Amendment RIGHT.

No, actually, it's not, according to the actual Constitution and all the documentation surrounding it. The individual mandate is a very recent thing; even the NRA didn't support it until a little before the Reagan administration --- ironically, in response to the same types of "revolutionary" tendencies that are now so common among right-wingers and libertarians. The only difference then was....oh, right, then it was the Black Panthers:

"[The NRA] actively lobbied in favor of the Gun Control Act of 1968, which banned gun sales by mail, and enacted a system of licensing those people and companies who bought and sold firearms. Franklin Orth, then the executive vice president of the NRA, said that although certain aspects of the law “appear unduly restrictive and unjustified in their application to law-abiding citizens, the measure as a whole appears to be one that the sportsmen of America can live with.”

During that time, the NRA and conservative politicians such as California Governor Ronald Reagan supported gun control as a means of restoring social order, and getting weapons out of the hands of radical, left-leaning and revolutionary groups, particularly the Black Panther Party.

Responding to the perceived failures of the nonviolent civil rights movement, the Black Panthers took a more militant and uncompromising approach of the fallen leader Malcolm X. Led by figures including Huey P. Newton and Bobby Seale, the Panthers’ “by any means necessary” approach included a most aggressive gun ownership policy to protect their communities from police abuse.

Beginning in 1966, the Panthers carried out police patrols, in which they rushed to the scene of an arrest with their loaded weapons publicly displayed, and notified those being arrested of their constitutional rights. California state legislator Don Mulford introduced a bill to repeal the state law allowing citizens to carry loaded guns in public if they were openly displayed. Mulford had the Panthers in mind with this legislation.

On May 2, 1967, a group of Black Panthers protested the bill by walking into the California State Capitol Building fully armed. In response, the legislature passed the Mulford Act. And Gov. Reagan, who was a major proponent of disarming the Panthers, signed the bill into law, effectively neutralizing the Panther Police Patrols.

Yet, in the 1970s the NRA began to shift their direction rightward and actively lobby for gun rights. Their chief lobbyist, Harlon Carter, was a former border control agent and staunch supporter of gun rights. In 1977, Carter and his faction staged a coup within the NRA, against an establishment that wanted to shift away from gun control and crime in favor of conservation and sportsmen’s issues."

When Prohibition-era organized crime led to the enactment of the National Firearms Act of 1934—the nation’s first federal gun control laws—the NRA not only supported restrictive gun control measures, but drafted legislation in numerous states limiting the carrying of concealed weapons. When NRA president Karl Frederick was asked by Congress whether the Second Amendment imposed any restrictions on gun control, he responded that he had “not given it any study from that point of view.”

That saying turns out to be true: that, if black people flocked to the gun stores to pick up weapons for "personal protection," the NRA would lobby for gun control yesterday.

If someone breaks into your house, I hope they have nothing more than an egg beater as a weapon for your sake

You're free to own home defense weapons. However, I don't need one because I'm not afraid of my own shadow. I'll be alright. Y'know, it's interesting beacuse for 15 something years now, I've been told by gun nuts that "you better get a gun or you'll die, there's such a strong likelihood that someone will kill your whole family for no reason out of nowhere, you should get a gun!" And yet, I've never once had my house broken into, I've never been robbed, and even if either of those things happen, I doubt I would have my gun on me at the moment even if I did own one (because I wouldn't likely be carrying it around on my person everywhere I went).

You know what they call people who carry guns and patrol to watch for violent crimes? Police officers.

Both extremes are shitty, and I wish there was a middle ground. It really does disgust me how willing people are to KILL someone who enters their home.

That's just the problem. Most of the people who are dumb enough to get all "2ND AMDENDMENT RIGHTS 2ND AMENDMENT RIGHTS NO DISCUSSION 'MURRRICA 'MURRICA THE SOUTH WILL RISE AGAIN!!11one11!", are people who really, really want to commit violence against someone, and they're looking for an excuse. If you visit some of these NRA pages and gun forums, you'll see dozens of stories about people who have never fired a gun at a human being or killed someone, and yet they talk about how they wish someone would break into their house so they could turn into Cowboy Joe and have a shoot-em-up and blow the guy's head off, like it's some kind of video game. And they know this about themselves. They project the same violent tendencies on to everyone else, and use that to justify their "need" to own a gun. And then they say that all of our gun problems are due to the "mentally ill." Right. Like the paranoid?

Because hey, there are a lot of crazy people out there, what's one more, right?

They are not douchebags...they want their rights upheld.

No they don't, because their "right" in this case doesn't exist. Almost none of them have never read the Constitution in full (I'd be surprised if any of them did), and even less of them have read any of the surrounding documentation like the Federalist Papers.

At any one time Obama and all the other hollywood types are surrounded with guns. Hell, Obama just signed on order for SS for life.

Did you notice how those gun toters aren't civilians, they're trained professionals whose job it is to provide physical security?

A well armed civilian population is one of the best defenses from someone invading our country. You may not like that idea, but it is a fact. We ever get invaded, anyone w/o guns will be running to someone with guns.

And we have been invaded exactly.....zero times since the revolutionary war. Yeah, we should've had guns at Pearl Harbor! Things would've been different! And 9/11 wouldn't have happened if only everyone in the twin towers had been armed.

Seriously, dude? lol.

I saw a news story of a woman in Texas who shot a man who was stealing her purse. According to reports, she shot him 6 times. When asked why she had to shoot him 6 times, she said it was because when she pulled the trigger a seventh time, she was out of ammo. Nuff sed.

It's actually illegal to kill someone in defense of property. It's considered disproportionate retribution.

My dad saw a story of a kid in a school who brought in a gun and started shooting. He didn't anyone, though. You know why? Because the principal pulled out his own gun and shot the student dead.

I love how your proposed solution to stopping kids from doing school shootings, is to put guns in the school where kids have an easier access to guns. Are you sure you've thought your position through carefully?

If everyone has easier access to guns, then EVERYONE has easier access to guns. If guns are easier to get legally, then they're even easier to get illegally, because you can steal them more easily (because they're fucking everywhere).

[MOTO13]

...A purse thief deserves punishment, like prison or something; a purse thief does not deserve to die. That is bullshit. Shooting a man 6 times because he tried to take her purse? Are you fucking kidding me??

Fantastic idea. Let's get all the teachers armed, so when a teacher has a bad day and loses her shit, she has easy access to a gun. I had more than one teacher growing up that I would NOT have wanted to have access to a gun during school. Holy shit. Even worse is the fact that children always want what's off limits. You lock up guns and kids are gonna take every chance they have to get to those guns. And kids are smarter than you think. Unless you wanna invest a shitload of money in steel vaults for every single classroom in every single school in the US. That sounds like a good use of tax money.

How many times should you shoot someone for stealing your purse? I can't believe anyone would stick up for a criminal. Criminals deserve to get shot. I think it's actually is a good thing when they die. Saves everyone a lot of time and wasted energy. I believe that was an old woman stuff was just a saying, not certain if it actually occurred. If so...good. I always say, if you do bad things, bad things may happen to you. There is damn near 100% chance if you don't steal from someone, they won't shoot you.

Hell, we are using tax money to fund friggin abortions, a few gun vaults couldn't hurt.

[Little_Miss_1565]

They are not douchebags...they want their rights upheld. At any one time Obama and all the other hollywood types are surrounded with guns. Hell, Obama just signed on order for SS for life. SS is basically full on, gun toating protection for himself and wife...for LIFE. Apparently he feels guns are OK as long as they protect his dumb ass. What gun license are you talking about?

Assault rifles are basically guns with pistol grips and high capacity clips. Limit clip size to 20 rounds...fine. That really doesn't bother me. A well armed civilian population is one of the best defenses from someone invading our country. You may not like that idea, but it is a fact. We ever get invaded, anyone w/o guns will be running to someone with guns.

If we ever get invaded, we have a fucking military.

Obama signed the order to have Secret Service protection for him and his family for life because that is what every living president before him has enjoyed. Both Presidents Bush still have a full Secret Service detail with them at all times. However, Congress also passed a law that says presidents will not have Secret Service protection after office after Obama. So what the fuck are you on about? Secret Servicemembers are trained like military and have to re-cert on firearms regularly. The fucking tard who fired off 60 rounds at a mall near me over the holidays barely had a background check when he was given his gun permit. THAT's what I'm talking about.

How many times should you shoot someone for stealing your purse? I can't believe anyone would stick up for a criminal. Criminals deserve to get shot. I think it's actually is a good thing when they die. Saves everyone a lot of time and wasted energy. I believe that was an old woman stuff was just a saying, not certain if it actually occurred. If so...good. I always say, if you do bad things, bad things may happen to you. There is damn near 100% chance if you don't steal from someone, they won't shoot you.

Hell, we are using tax money to fund friggin abortions, a few gun vaults couldn't hurt.

Only cowards use deadly force when your life isn't in danger.

[Static_Martyr]

I always say, if you do bad things, bad things may happen to you. There is damn near 100% chance if you don't steal from someone, they won't shoot you.

So I take it you don't care for prisoners' basic human rights? Like, we can torture them or whatever, and they deserve it because, hey, they wouldn't be in there if they weren't doing something wrong, right?

Just so you know, the Constitution (I know, that pesky Constitution that you love so much keeps getting in the way of your positions on things, must be a bummer) has this thing called the 8th Amendment, which prevents cruel and unusual punishment.

Also, thankfully, disproportionate violence in a non-life-threatening situation is also illegal, so in the case of the woman shooting the thief 6 times until he died, if the first shot didn't kill him, she would likely be tried for homicide.

One more thing as well: There have been several cases in Florida, just this (last) year, of people being shot simply because a peaceful confrontation went bad. There's one guy who made a video of himself confronting a neighbor (a teacher) about his stereo being too loud, and he ends up shooting the guy because the guy told him to fuck off, trying to claim a "stand your ground" defense. Needless to say, he was convicted of murder. I don't blame the guy for telling him to fuck off, either; in the video he's all, "just so you know, I have a gun so you should do what I say." So yeah, it seems that not committing a crime is really not a guarantee that some cowboy wannabe won't shoot you just for getting on his bad side.

[Llamas]

How many times should you shoot someone for stealing your purse? I can't believe anyone would stick up for a criminal. Criminals deserve to get shot. I think it's actually is a good thing when they die. Saves everyone a lot of time and wasted energy. I believe that was an old woman stuff was just a saying, not certain if it actually occurred. If so...good. I always say, if you do bad things, bad things may happen to you. There is damn near 100% chance if you don't steal from someone, they won't shoot you.

And where do you wanna draw this line? How objective can we be? All theft = you get killed? What about stealing a DVD from the store? What about stealing a pack of gum from the store? What about an old lady stealing fake flowers from the store? What about a child stealing a pack of gum from the store? What about CEOs committing fraud? Who's gonna shoot all those people to death?

Hell, we are using tax money to fund friggin abortions, a few gun vaults couldn't hurt.

Okay, let's say we could manage to get vaults for $200 a pop. There are around 140,000 schools in the US. Let's undercut and say there are only 50 classrooms in each school (though most schools, especially colleges, have well over a hundred classrooms). $1,400,000,000. Just on vaults for classrooms. Yep, that'll get us out of debt.

[MOTO13]

And where do you wanna draw this line? How objective can we be? All theft = you get killed? What about stealing a DVD from the store? What about stealing a pack of gum from the store? What about an old lady stealing fake flowers from the store? What about a child stealing a pack of gum from the store? What about CEOs committing fraud? Who's gonna shoot all those people to death?

Okay, let's say we could manage to get vaults for $200 a pop. There are around 140,000 schools in the US. Let's undercut and say there are only 50 classrooms in each school (though most schools, especially colleges, have well over a hundred classrooms). $1,400,000,000. Just on vaults for classrooms. Yep, that'll get us out of debt.

Do not steal and you won't get shot. I know you want to draw a line...there is validity in this. I do understand. Should you die for stealing a pack of gum? Probably not. But mess with the wrong store owner and you might. Is it fair to die for this? Not really. Is it fair to have your property stolen? No. Nobody said that stealing always ends up being a winning proposition for the criminal.

Now we are worried about spending money? That's funny. Hell, ask the teachers that want to vault their guns to pay for the use of the vault. Problem solved.

And just real quick for SM...if you commit a violent crime and end of in prison, I do not care what happens to the crminial in any way. Cruel, unusual whatever. Not my problem. Just make their life miserable. I am real good with that.

[Little_Miss_1565]

And oh, PS - tax dollars do not fund abortions.