global warming

[Endymion]

not strictly politics, i'm aware, but it ends up being a political issue enough.

from NASA (http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/newsroom/20050920a.html): "And for three Mars summers in a row, deposits of frozen carbon dioxide near Mars' south pole have shrunk from the previous year's size, suggesting a climate change in progress."

global warming on mars? thoughts?

[sKratch]

I'm sure I don't need to tell you this, but all planets go through climatic cycles, so to speak; there have been several ice ages on Earth and several periods where the average temperature is much higher than the current one. I'm sure the same is possible for our friend Mars. Either that or Martians drive using leaded fuel, those bastards.

[T-6005]

Yeah, what's their fucking problem anyways.

[leavesonline]

Well, let's face it, 'global warming' is something of an earth-centric view - let's all try to deconstruct the interplanetary dichotomy that privileges such biases and apply a Derrida-like unpacking on the masculinist practices that led to this exclusion of Mars...

Heh heh heh....

:confused:

[Endymion]

you'll notice i previously called this post something like "republicans with small penises drive suvs on mars"...

anyway, it's just a little odd that mars AND earth are going through warming periods at the same time if the majority of the warming here on earth is caused by humans, as is the current opinion from a presumably unbiased scientific board.

the data from the mars thing *is* just for over the past three years, but to cause a noticable reduction in the polar cap... *shrug* i'd like to see where this all goes.

[nieh]

We've only been watching Mars this closely for three years. For all we know, they have a very unstable weather system and changes like this over a short period of aren't uncommon. Regarding Earth global warming, I'm a big believer in the concept of global dimming which I'm sure I've mentioned on here on more than one occasion. It's been countering the effects of global warming creating a much much slower rise in temperature than there would have been without it. I know that we're still on the tail end of an ice age and that our average temperature will probably go up a bit naturally over the next few centuries, but that doesn't mean that the concept of global warming (in an SUV driving, aerosol can spraying sense) doesn't actually exist like many people argue.

[Endymion]

i'm undecided on the issue myself

[wheelchairman]

I really don't get too motivated by environmental issues, or animal rights. I simply don't care. The only people who do care are those who should be kept out of politics, and shouldn't be allowed to speak. I hate them.

[Italia311]

It's all denmarks fault. They are having such a huge industrial boom. I wouldnt be suprised if they took over the world in the next few years. I'm so scared.

[wheelchairman]

I wish. Then I could get a job.

[T-6005]

If Denmark actually took over the world, that would the most out-of-nowhere takeover ever imagined. It's like if Jamaica annexed India.

[DUNCS]

"I really don't get too motivated by environmental issues, or animal rights. I simply don't care. The only people who do care are those who should be kept out of politics, and shouldn't be allowed to speak. I hate them."

Not to put to fine a point on it but..........what a load of PISH.
Without trying to sound like a hippy its something that concerns us all.
A large chunk of this extreme weather thats been going on is not a direct result of global warming, but global warming is a definete contributer, so for every single living thing on the planet, environmental issues are important, these days. Apart from crocodiles who seem to survive not matter what the environment is like.

[wheelchairman]

I've seen little evidence of green house gases being such a large contributor to the weather change.

[DUNCS]

As i said it is not the sole reason for weather change, yet it is a contributer, so then surely something must be done, eg stop contributing as much.

[wheelchairman]

Yeah, or I could continue not caring.

you see, people are hungry, poor, and suffering from preventable diseases. So when people start whining about a weather problem, that may or may not be natural, I kinda want to punch them.

[*danni*]

*tries not to offend any american people* i dont like the way that bush wont help stop global warming i dont know much about the issue but america has 3% of the worlds population but but creates 25% of the worlds greenhouse gases. i just think all countries should work together on it its needs to get sorted! luv danni xXx

[memento]

you see, people are hungry, poor, and suffering from preventable diseases. So when people start whining about a weather problem, that may or may not be natural, I kinda want to punch them.

You have got to be kidding me? You realise that one of the worst famine's in Africa that killed a HUGE amount of people was as a direct result of global warming/dimming effecting the rain patterns. I forgot what it's called, but I assure you it did happen.

Shitty political issues such as healthcare and income equality PALE absoultely PALE in comparason to environmental issues which could mean the end of humanity on this planet or at least a death of billions upon billions.

And it's not an if or if not issue. Global dimming is very real, it's been proven due to the events of 9/11 when air contrails weren't existent the temp. in the US rose by a full degree. That's only from air contrails.

[Endymion]

the atmosphere and global environment are such complicated systems that there's no way to be sure of the stuff you're saying. that whole butterfly effect thing? it's basically true, very minor things can have just results. you don't need tons of pollutants released to cause a problem. it could be many things. that stinky hippie that built a little house in a tree so that it wouldn't be cut down? THAT could have caused katrina.

if you want to do your part, environmentalists, why don't you stop using anything "unnatural". no more living in a home, find a cave. do you know how many animals natural habitats got fucked up for that house? your simply living in a home or driving a car down a road or going to a school has probably fucked the earth up from it's "natural" state sans humans more than throwing all that shit in the air will.

[memento]

That's a stupid argument. To stop doing anything unnatural is taking it too far. We're asking for less shit pumped into the air. It's not hard. Esp when one country is doing alot of the shitting.

Choas theory relates to everything and anything, it doesn't stop cause and effect, however only prediction from my understanding of it. THa's why it has impact on determinst versus freewill quantum theory versus classical physics too. You can't predict shit even if you know everything.

You pump shit into the air, you cause global dimming. You pumped CFC's etc. into the air you cause warming. This is fact, this is established.

[Endymion]

Choas theory relates to everything and anything, it doesn't stop cause and effect, however only prediction from my understanding of it. THa's why it has impact on determinst versus freewill quantum theory versus classical physics too. You can't predict shit even if you know everything.
that's what people always get wrong about chaos theory. it's that you CAN determine how a system evolves IF you have the exact boundary conditions. the earth is an OPEN SYSTEM, you CAN NOT know its boundary conditions, so it's EVEN WORSE than a chaotic system. global warming could be entirely caused by an increase in the flux of cosmic rays.
You pump shit into the air, you cause global dimming. You pumped CFC's etc. into the air you cause warming. This is fact, this is established.
please show me where it is established unambiguously and beyond reasonable doubt. to the best of my knowledge the best anyone's been able to come up with is "MOST of the warming trend over the past 100 years has PROBABLY been caused by human action".

[memento]

The paper written about the 9/11 contrails. I don't have a reference sorry.

Edit: that's in reference to dimming. Perhaps what you say abotu warming is true but dimming is another case.

[Endymion]

also, i'm not saying that polluting is a good thing. what i am saying is that the cost of keeping our standard of living where it is or higher, while at the same time significantly reducing the levels of pollution, is currently infeasible. scientific research is needed to develop new, cleaner modes of energy production, not cleaning up our current ones.

[JoY]

bwuh, I could use some global warming right now. *shivers&shakes*

[memento]

We agree then. Nuclear power all the way.

[Endymion]

thank you, i've always supported nuclear power. it's far safer to people and much less harmful on the environment than other types. 'cept solar power. but wind and hydro have horrible effects on ecosystems.

i've always advocated shooting nuclear waste into the sun. we just need do develop cheaper suttle launching technology (holloman sleds?) then we can build huge fucking barges, load them with nuclear waste, and launch it into the sun. problem fuckin' solve.

[nieh]

The paper written about the 9/11 contrails. I don't have a reference sorry.

Edit: that's in reference to dimming. Perhaps what you say abotu warming is true but dimming is another case.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/dimming_trans.shtml

And no, this doesn't prove anything 100%. Global Dimming is probably the only environmental thing that's actually given me the jibblies, but as Endy said before, the changes in temperature could just be caused by a change in the sun's rays (especially when you look at the fact that Mars' average temperature is going up the same time ours is)

[Endymion]

i don't know much about global dimming, but from what i understand it's something you can work with rather than a temperature change which is MUCH harder to track.

it's also been proposed that the temp could be related to the solar system's position in the galaxy... you know.. solar systems orbit around the galactic center much the same as planets orbit the sun. we could be entering into a denser area of a galactic arm or something.

[HornyPope]

we just need do develop cheaper suttle launching technology (holloman sleds?) then we can build huge fucking barges, load them with nuclear waste, and launch it into the sun. problem fuckin' solve.

Two fucks in one paragraph. That's a first.


Jimmy Pop- "Eminem gotta cuss to sell records, well me too, so fuck Will Smith"
QBall - "That don't rhymes"

[Sinister]

i've always advocated shooting nuclear waste into the sun. we just need do develop cheaper suttle launching technology (holloman sleds?) then we can build huge fucking barges, load them with nuclear waste, and launch it into the sun. problem fuckin' solve.

that might also solve the problem of the Sun running out of stuff to "consume" !

well... I suppose it wouldn't do any harm anyway.

[T-6005]

I don't think earth could possibly produce enough of anything to keep the Sun going for long.

[Endymion]

that might also solve the problem of the Sun running out of stuff to "consume" !

no, but it's an effective way to dispose of waste without side effect.

[neocon58]

no, but it's an effective way to dispose of waste without side effect.

Indeed.

Do you guys make anything of the kyoto protocol? Will it make any worthwhile difference or is it just to shut to public up?

[wheelchairman]

Endy and I are arguing on the same side. I never thought that would happen. (not that we've ever argued, but I think you said you were a libertarian, or libertarian-leaning. Or else you just voted Libertarian.)

You shouldn't tell Justin you're a libertarian though...

[Sin Studly]

Libertarians are all insane evil anarchist bastards.

[Endymion]

word, check out paptown.

oh, and after talking to a historian of 20th century science: the problem with shooting nuclear waste into the sun is the risk of a rocket exploding in the atmosphere.

[nieh]

Not to mention that overtime the earth would lose mass and we might go out of our regular orbit. I bet no one ever thought about THAT. Though that's probably because it would take about a thousand year to do anything even remotely noticeable.

[T-6005]

Not to mention that overtime the earth would lose mass and we might go out of our regular orbit. I bet no one ever thought about THAT. Though that's probably because it would take about a thousand year to do anything even remotely noticeable.

Probably longer, actually.

[brothadave79]

Not to mention that overtime the earth would lose mass and we might go out of our regular orbit. I bet no one ever thought about THAT. Though that's probably because it would take about a thousand year to do anything even remotely noticeable.

Actually the Earth is constantly gaining in mass all the time. From dust particles to massive meteorites, it all adds up. This has been going on for billions of years, and there doesn't seem to be any truly adverse effects.