View Full Version : Aborting black babies will reduce crime!
arak0r
10-01-2005, 12:53 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/30/bennett.comments/index.html
you heard it here first. cant believe he had the .. guts? nuts? idiocy? to actually say something like that.
Jesus
10-01-2005, 04:47 AM
Why? I really don't see anything logically or statistically wrong with these statements (if you disregard the abortion of an entire race as being a crime ofcourse, but that still would be a one time spike).
"If you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose -- you could abort every black baby in this country and your crime rate would go down.
"That would be an impossibly ridiculous and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down,"
"To recommend abortion of an entire group of people in order to lower your crime rate is morally reprehensible. But this is what happens when you argue that the ends can justify the means,"
wheelchairman
10-01-2005, 04:54 AM
Yeah if you read more than the headline and first paragraph you get a very different view of him.
Sin Studly
10-01-2005, 05:04 AM
You really suck, Joey, you dumb shit.
Paint_It_Black
10-01-2005, 09:49 AM
"I was putting forward a hypothetical proposition. Put that forward. Examined it. And then said about it that it's morally reprehensible. To recommend abortion of an entire group of people in order to lower your crime rate is morally reprehensible. But this is what happens when you argue that the ends can justify the means," he told CNN.
"I'm not racist, and I'll put my record up against theirs," referring to Pelosi and other critics. "I've been a champion of the real civil rights issue of our times -- equal educational opportunities for kids."
"We've got to have candor and talk about these things while we reject wild hypotheses," Bennett said.
"I don't think people have the right to be angry, if they look at the whole thing. But if they get a selective part of my comment, I can see why they would be angry. If somebody thought I was advocating that, they ought to be angry. I would be angry."
"But that's not what I advocate."
Asked if he owed people an apology, Bennett replied, "I don't think I do. I think people who misrepresented my view owe me an apology."
But if he didn't expect to be misrepresented and taken out of context then he is rather foolish. Perhaps he just wanted the inevitable attention.
He may not be a racist but what he said sure as hell was fucking racist. Reading the full transcript, the context seems to be "blah blah crime rates abortion blah blah BLACK BABIES = CRIME blah blah".
If we abort ALL babies, the crime rate will go down.
This is not about the context of what he said, it's what what he said IMPLIES. And what it implies is that a black baby is a future criminal. Meaning all black people are more likely to become criminals than say, white people. It's a generalization, it's a stereotype, it's quite simply, a fucking idiotic thing to say.
T-6005
10-01-2005, 10:12 AM
Well - it's a true enough statement because of the population demographic.
The assumed association of race and crime is the real problem.
wheelchairman
10-01-2005, 10:14 AM
It's a statistical truth Vera. He was turning his argument into a Straw-man.
there are of course reasons for why crime is higher in poor areas. and poor areas are often black by ethnicity, however that would've made his point a lot less interesting, and he would've been ignored all together.
One can find statistical truths for most statements made on the place of this planet. It's still an unfair thing to say.
Won't somebody think of the black babies?
arak0r
10-01-2005, 11:24 AM
i read the full article. i said he had guts :p and while statistically it could or maybe would be true, it doesnt make it morally right in any way.
wheelchairman
10-01-2005, 11:32 AM
I still don't see what he did wrong.
So he said black in a hypothetical situation? Blacks and Crime is a COMMON misconception in right-wing argumentation, so of course he used it.
Per, even if someone's right-wing, it's not okay for them to be an idiot.
C'mon. Have a little intolerance.
JohnnyNemesis
10-01-2005, 11:42 AM
He may not be a racist but what he said sure as hell was fucking racist. Reading the full transcript, the context seems to be "blah blah crime rates abortion blah blah BLACK BABIES = CRIME blah blah".
If we abort ALL babies, the crime rate will go down.
This is not about the context of what he said, it's what what he said IMPLIES. And what it implies is that a black baby is a future criminal. Meaning all black people are more likely to become criminals than say, white people. It's a generalization, it's a stereotype, it's quite simply, a fucking idiotic thing to say.
This is pretty much exactly what I was going to say.
Vera is superior.
wheelchairman
10-01-2005, 11:55 AM
Per, even if someone's right-wing, it's not okay for them to be an idiot.
C'mon. Have a little intolerance.
Except he was using the black reference in a way that made their use of it stupid. At least that's how I understood it.
0r4ng3
10-01-2005, 11:59 AM
I always thought that right-wingers were against abortion in the first place. If he was using typical right-wing argumentation, surely he wouldn't have sounded pro-abortion.
wheelchairman
10-01-2005, 12:00 PM
Except, he was trying to prove that the means don't justify the ends....
0r4ng3
10-01-2005, 12:08 PM
Oh, I guess I didn't read the article correctly. I must have missed something.
Jesus
10-01-2005, 12:10 PM
He may not be a racist but what he said sure as hell was fucking racist.
Where exactly was it racist?
This is not about the context of what he said, it's what what he said IMPLIES. And what it implies is that a black baby is a future criminal. Meaning all black people are more likely to become criminals than say, white people. It's a generalization, it's a stereotype, it's quite simply, a fucking idiotic thing to say.
Why? If I was born in Texas, the chance of me hating fags would be much higher than it is now. If I was born in Brazil, the chance of me sniffing glue would be much higher. If I was a gypsy, I might even be begging for money now. Seriously, a person's free will is only one of the factors which determines who he is/wants to be.
And yeah a black person in current America has a higher chance of ending up as criminal (or what is considered to be a criminal right now), just like Arabs, Poles (although declining) and Romanians in current European countries. Denying it won't help them.
glescapunk
10-01-2005, 12:26 PM
in that context aborting all males would mean the rape numbers would go down would he be called a man hater, doubt it
Sin Studly
10-01-2005, 10:56 PM
We definitely abort all the Glasweigans, though.
I Am The Cookie Monster
10-01-2005, 11:06 PM
This would be impossible to do as every 5 seconds a black baby is born,and truly its not just blacks its Mexicans and white people aswell. Also the physical and emotional state of many people would become very violent and/or sad because nobody wants their baby to die unless your an encredibly bad parent. Riots,huge amounts of money loss. The world would go into another great depression because black's would be sueing the economy for killing their kids for no apparent reason.
Where exactly was it racist?
In implying that black people are criminals. I don't give a fuck about statistical truths, it's still a racist thing to say. It's like saying if you killed all the homosexuals, there would no longer be AIDS.
I'm the last person to vouch for political correctness but my point is that specifying it's black people who cause crime is just not a very smart thing to say. And like I said, if you abort ALL babies, the crime rate will go down. If you abort all babies that come from bad neighborhoods, the crime rate might go down.
The way he specifically singled out black babies is racist in my opinion. I don't it was smart, I don't think it was justified and I, again, don't give a fuck about statistical truths.
Also, what makes it a racist comment is that if you look at the transcript, no one mentions race until he does. The caller doesn't mention it, the book Bennet brings up as a book where he's getting his example from (more or less) doesn't mention it in examples. Bennett mentions it, thus himself drawing the arrow between black people and crime. That's stereotyping, racist and offensive.
Sin Studly
10-02-2005, 04:11 AM
It's still true.
wheelchairman
10-02-2005, 04:29 AM
The thing is, I don't think he believes it Vera. It's how about how the MEANS don't justify the ENDS.
I don't think a clever person would make that statement if they meant to say that ends don't justify the means (you meant it like that, right?).
Justin, be quiet.
wheelchairman
10-02-2005, 05:32 AM
That's how I meant it. And I think it does. Since the debate deals with singling out blacks AS the more criminally active groups. So he was showing how it was ridiculous, and how taking care of a "race" wouldn't do nothing.
Paint_It_Black
10-02-2005, 06:30 AM
It's like saying if you killed all the homosexuals, there would no longer be AIDS.
No, it's more like saying if you killed all the homosexuals then the transmission of AIDS would decrease. Which is another statistical truth, because apparently anal sex carries a higher risk of contracting the virus than other forms of sex, and anal sex is more common in the homosexual community.
I agree with Wheelchairman.
Not necessarily, nowadays a huge percentage of AIDS transmissions come from drug needles, at least here in the north (as opposed to south aka Africa). You don't need to have anal sex to get AIDS anymore.
I don't think that he meant to say what you're reading into it.
Paint_It_Black
10-02-2005, 06:52 AM
True, there are other high risk factors for getting AIDS, but it is still truth that if you cut down on one you will cut down on the problem in general.
"I was putting forward a hypothetical proposition. Put that forward. Examined it. And then said about it that it's morally reprehensible. To recommend abortion of an entire group of people in order to lower your crime rate is morally reprehensible. But this is what happens when you argue that the ends can justify the means,"
As I read it, he's saying that killing all the black babies would be a terrible thing, and although crime rates would go down, the price is far too high. He's criticizing proponents of the argument that the ends justify the means. It may have been a much better move if he had said "babies from low income families", just so he could avoid this backlash, and it would have amounted to the same thing. Since he did chose to use black babies as the example, I can see some people taking it the wrong way, but in light of his civil rights work I think he should be given the benefit of the doubt. What he said was technically accurate, and I truly don't think he meant to be rascist. I do still wonder if he wanted the attention though, because a smart man should have anticipated this. But he might have just fucked up.
I never said he wanted to kill black babies - he may be stupid but probably not that stupid.
Paint_It_Black
10-02-2005, 07:02 AM
I never said he wanted to kill black babies - he may be stupid but probably not that stupid.
You didn't, but that's what some people attacking him will say.
Why kill black babies when you can eat then?
JohnnyNemesis
10-02-2005, 08:02 AM
I don't necessarily forgive based on intent. The words you use are powerful, and using them accidentally does damage. I can be forgiving sometime, but it's hard for me to cut someone on the RADIO some slack. I mean, he of all people should know how to be careful with what he says.
Paint_It_Black
10-02-2005, 08:19 AM
I don't necessarily forgive based on intent.
Me neither. But sometimes, based on intent, there's not even anything to forgive.
Sin Studly
10-02-2005, 09:22 AM
I saw nothing offensive with what he said. He was making an attention-grabbing hypothetical situation to disprove a point.
Preocupado
10-02-2005, 02:41 PM
"That would be an impossibly ridiculous and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down," he said.
It's a boring empty statement. There's no true racism within those words nor anything intelligent, productive or even interesting. Even if he could do that, he wouldn't, as he said.
Another redundant, useless and sterile article, just like CNN.
the_offsprings_monkey
10-03-2005, 04:10 AM
I don't hate black people i just hate the gangsta in your face types that wanna mug a white boi like me, infact most of the black people i know are rather nice.
Skate Rat 19
10-04-2005, 07:14 PM
well it is true, I mean when the minority of a nation causes the majority of the crimes in it, I think its safe to make that kind of assumption. I have nothing against Black people
to me theres lots of different types
Nigger-ghetto, street trash, 'gangsta', thug, ho
African American-respectable, successful person
Black- Just your average joe who happens to have dark skin
Sin Studly
10-04-2005, 10:36 PM
Niggers would be the type that fantasise about robbing banks then, you nigger?
glescapunk
10-05-2005, 03:02 AM
im impressed you know what a glaswegian is pity ye canny spell
Sin Studly
10-05-2005, 05:09 AM
Don't ever talk to me, you drunken violent stupid smelly bogtrotting gruel-slurping potato-nigger jock weedjie scum.
MichealCorleone
10-05-2005, 05:55 AM
Don't ever talk to me, you drunken violent stupid smelly bogtrotting gruel-slurping potato-nigger jock weedjie scum.
* Scot ten characters
felix_leiter
10-07-2005, 03:16 PM
The poor fucker really got the piss taken out of him. What he said is true, but he was not advocating it.
I love it the way that racially proud people love being defined positively by their race, but get really pissed off when negative things arise from that pride.
Just shows what stupid fuckers they are.
Skate Rat 19
10-09-2005, 02:23 PM
well thats the whole point of racism, you believe your race is superior to another. So you get mad when others step up against you. It is dumb to base that on skin color and what not, but I can understand hating certain steryeo types. The only problem is stereo types are defined mainly by race. Even Martin Luther King himself agrees
"I have a dream where my kids are juged not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character......"
That is what I meant by any racist things I've sad on this board, if I offened you I could care less, its the fact that this country is full of pussies which makes it suck and afraid to do whats right even if it hurts us a little. US soldiers are not allowed to search mulsim temples and stuff because it violates their religion, well its their unfortuantly now twisted religion that caused the death of over 5,000 innocent Americans and tons of others around the globe. Everyone knows damn well that terrorists hide out in there.
in the words of Carl Johnson "fuck ya'll"
peruvian fan
10-10-2005, 11:43 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/30/bennett.comments/index.html
you heard it here first. cant believe he had the .. guts? nuts? idiocy? to actually say something like that.
I think that senator or whatever he is, it's obviously an evil racist.I'm not a religious man but i think when somoene aborts black or white babies is killin a person
Nikako22
10-11-2005, 02:57 PM
the guy shot himself in the foot plain and simple doesnt matter what point he was trying to make people will always blow whatever you say out of porportion anyways. But when you say somethin like that its political (or anything public) suicide.
wheelchairman
10-11-2005, 10:29 PM
You people are stupid.
What he originally said, in it's original context, was so extremely bland, that you'd have to only read the title of the article, to get offended. Seriously.
PilZ-E
10-11-2005, 10:43 PM
I'am saying this based soley on the title of the thread not the article.
The abortion of any entire race would lower the crime rate.
I'll read the article tommorow when I will be able to comprehend it as for no I'am going to sleep.
T-6005
10-12-2005, 01:01 AM
The amount of crime in total, perhaps. But if you erased an ethnic group with a lower criminal ratio (for whatever reason) than others, you would be raising the crime rate within the remaining population.
XYlophonetreeZ
10-12-2005, 02:21 AM
Seems to me that the words themselves don't convey Bennett's racism as much as the thought process that was evident. People who are defending Bennett are saying that the quote was taken out of context, when in reality the context is exactly what proves him to be racist. He and a caller were having a discussion about abortion, and he was seeking for a way to disprove the argument of pro-choicers who claim that abortions are making the crime rate lower. The basis of this argument is that those who get abortions are unlikely to be able to bring up a child in a mentally healthy environment. This could be for any number of reasons. However, the first thing that popped into Bennett's head was to associate black people with crime and unhealthy living environments for babies that would otherwise be aborted, and THAT shows his racism.
Look at the quote alone, with no context, and it's not only racist, it's fascist.
Look at the quote with only SOME context (the quote, and then Bennett's condemning his hypothetical scenario... the context he WANTS you to look at it in), and it's not racist.
Look at the quote in full context, and it's racist again.
wheelchairman
10-12-2005, 02:47 AM
I think it's fairly clear that he said black babies, to underline the absurdity of his analogy.
But you didn't read the article. He wasn't talking about abortion, he was talking about how the ends don't justify the means.
Per, the article isn't where he said the thing. The article is him DEFENDING what he said. It's not the actual context in which he said the thing in. In the radio interview, he was talking about abortion. The article is the response, not the context itself.
wheelchairman
10-12-2005, 04:05 AM
You've heard the interview?
"If you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose -- you could abort every black baby in this country and your crime rate would go down.
Doesn't sound like abortion is the issue to me.
XYlophonetreeZ
10-12-2005, 07:16 AM
You've heard the interview?
Doesn't sound like abortion is the issue to me.
Once again-- context. Look up "William Bennett" on Wikipedia, they have the interview word for word, or at least the relevant section of it. They WERE talking about abortion.
Best to trust the original source material rather than what the media choose to make of it.
wheelchairman
10-12-2005, 08:00 AM
BENNETT: Well, I don't think it is either, I don't think it is either, because first of all, there is just too much that you don't know. But I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down. That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down. So these far-out, these far-reaching, extensive extrapolations are, I think, tricky.
It seems to suggest that I am right.
You're quoting a segment, not the context.
The context is, in my opinion,
Caller: Blah blah blah abortioned people funding Social security.
Bennett: Blah blah blah Freakanomics states that blah blah.
Caller: Er.
Bennett: ABORTIONING BLACK BABIES, ahem, I mean, totally wrong of course.
Okay, I kid but the thing is, I've read people saying that he misinterprets the book Freakanomics and then throws this remark in that's got very little to do with the actual topic at hand.
I fail to see the connection between lost revenue because of people being abortioned and abortioning people to decrease crime rate.
I still consider it an offensive thing to say.
XYlophonetreeZ
10-12-2005, 11:19 AM
BENNETT: Well, I don't think it is either, I don't think it is either, because first of all, there is just too much that you don't know. But I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down. That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down. So these far-out, these far-reaching, extensive extrapolations are, I think, tricky.
It seems to suggest that I am right.
The only thing it suggests is that it's totally irrelevant to what I'm talking about. Bennett is taking full advantage of media manipulation, and I have to hand it to him, he's being pretty clever. See, nobody intelligent actually thinks Bennett wants to abort all black babies. That's not why people accuse him of being racist. But he's doing everything he can to treat the whole situation as if that IS the reason, because he has something legitimate to back up the fact that he doesn't want to abort every black baby in the whole goddamn country. Sweet. Neither does the Klan.
He acts like he's telling us something that the media isn't. Oooh, he's letting America in on a secret. We all like to know secrets hidden by the evil media, don't we? However, he's actually telling us less than they did in the first place, but focusing on different aspects of the story. And the bitch of it is, his scheme worked. He has actually made many forget the reason why they were originally outraged, which is that he associated black people with crime TOTALLY out of the blue. And yes, he used a graphic and horrific example that he himself went on to condemn. He was fortunate with the timing too: the story became MUCH more widespread and easier to find throughout the media after he tried to justify himself, so a lot of the people were uninformed prior to when he "cleared up" the issue. Of course you're not going to think he's racist if the first and only thing you read is his own self-justification.
I realize that statistically there is a higher crime rate among blacks. There is also a higher crime rate among those with lower incomes. There is also a higher crime rate among Hispanics. There is also a higher crime rate among males. There is also a higher crime rate among those from urban areas. There is also a higher crime rate among those who come from dysfunctional families.
Some of those would have also been inappropriate to use in that kind of example, but all are true. The two things that bother me about it are, first, that BLACK BABIES just popped right into his head. He must spend some time thinking about those goddamn black people and their horrible effect on the American justice system for it to come to his head that quickly. The other thing is that these are BABIES we're talking about. They have not been affected by environmental factors yet. What the caller was saying about single mothers getting abortions was legitimate-- that's an environmental factor that could affect a baby. By using the abortion of black babies in an example, it sounds like he's implying some inherent property in blacks that makes them more prone to crime.
wheelchairman
10-12-2005, 12:44 PM
Well you are American, from the Southeast no less. You should know that Blacks committing more crimes is a common idea among the right-wing. Either way he used it to underline an extreme point. I probably would've done the same thing. It's not like you have to think hard to pick blacks as an example, we're told that every day, in every possible way. He just went for the obvious.
I mean no one should be shocked because his point was an attempt at being ridiculous. He could've just as easily have said people of lower incomes, or hispanics, however the impact would've been a lot smaller.
XYlophonetreeZ
10-12-2005, 04:11 PM
Oh I get that. But I just don't understand how, for even a second, he could think that any of that impact could do any good.
bouncingcoles
10-16-2005, 05:08 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/30/bennett.comments/index.html
you heard it here first. cant believe he had the .. guts? nuts? idiocy? to actually say something like that.
what a fucking idiot!!! although i think its kinda funny.
Black__ball
10-27-2005, 01:04 PM
i dont care
you did it again on different thread
droogiedroogie1
10-31-2005, 02:52 AM
You really suck, Joey, you dumb shit.I really think you could have developed that thought a little more. It's not quite...um...well, it's not quite lucid, really. It's just intellectual spooge.
theraputicsmile17
10-31-2005, 01:10 PM
PERSONALLY i think this is quite funny.....even though it's racist. :eek:
Madman_1013
11-30-2005, 12:24 AM
The percentage of criminals in prison are BLACK!!!!! How long did it take the blacks in new oleans to degenerate into raping and murduring people without the presents of the WHITES.....ummm about 12 hours.
Sin Studly
11-30-2005, 02:44 AM
Black people are the devil. :(
.:SMASH:.
11-30-2005, 03:11 AM
Black people are the devil. :(
no momma they're not the devil! you think everything is the devil - waterboy
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