The Offspring and A.F.I.

[offspringing]

ok so does anyone know what happen to davey and dexter are they friends anymore because once afi went off nitro dexter didnt do any more vocals for them or davey for the offspring, i would love to hear them do some songs together but i have not clue whats going on anyone eles know

[Apathy]

http://www.offspring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1778&highlight=pole

"AFI were signed to Dexter's Nitro label before leaving for Dreamworks (now dissolved into Interscope) in 2001. Both bands are on good terms despite AFI's uneasiness with the Anthology CD Nitro released (no word on lawsuits… yet)."


They're on good terms appearantly. It's doubtful that they still talk with one another because AFI is on another record label and all. But with what they're doing these days, why would you want them in an Offspring song?

[Emily_offspring_fan]

That's a very useful thread. And very funny, too. All the girls sayin "ooohh dexter is soo hot" haha idiots. At the moment, luckily, we don't have this girls in the BBS.

[CommonRider]

In AFI's 'Art of Drowning' CD booklet released in 2001, in the thank you's it says "To our great friends, the Offspring" and later it thanks Dexter personally.

In AFI's 'Sing the Sorrow' CD booklet released after they left Nitro in 2003, the only mention it makes is "thanks to everyone at Nitro".

I dunno if you ask me thats messed up for them not even to thank the Offspring or Dexter personally anymore, since he helped them get on a major record label and all. Oh well both kick-ass bands

[Venom Symbiote]

Dexter fucked them over with the compilation, they've got a right to be at least a little cold about it.

It's not as big a deal as what Brett did to The Offspring in '95, but it was still a shitty decision on Dexter's part, him of all people having gone through it personally.

[ilovellamas]

Honest question: I really just don't understand how Dexter releasing that comp disc on nitro was a fuck move. How did it hurt AFI?

[Dexter_italy]

because they're not his songs (maybe are in a legal way but..) ...they're afi's songs, so he should have at least asked to them before putting out the disc

[ilovellamas]

well right, it wasn't *nice* or right for him to do, but I don't see how that FUCKED AFI. Didn't exactly hurt them, I don't think.

[Kitten]

because they're not his songs (maybe are in a legal way but..) ...they're afi's songs, so he should have at least asked to them before putting out the disc

If the record label paid for the recording, they own the recording and can do whatever they want with them. As for them being upset about the comp, I feel that it is completely unreasonable. It gives perspective AFI fans a chance to listen to songs from each of the albums to decide whether they want to buy the albums themselves.

[Little_Miss_1565]

Dexter fucked them over with the compilation, they've got a right to be at least a little cold about it.

It's not as big a deal as what Brett did to The Offspring in '95, but it was still a shitty decision on Dexter's part, him of all people having gone through it personally.

Everyone is right, there was no fucking involved with the comp. Nitro owns the rights, it was fully legal, AFI gets paid from it. AFI just didn't want it, that's all. Much different from being fucked by it.

[Venom Symbiote]

Then wouldn't someone be correct in saying that what Brett Guerewitz did regarding our favourite band wasn't a fuck-over either?

His actions were perfectly legal and from a business standpoint understandable, too. The Offspring weren't so much "hurt" by it in terms of career as pissed off that they weren't even being consulted about their future. It's kind of the same deal with AFI, from what I understand. Dexter was well within his legal rights to do it, but from an ethical standpoint, and from the view that these guys were his friends, his proteges if you will, it was a bit of a fuckover.

He encouraged them to make the next step to a major, then once that's done doesn't even let them know what he's doing with their music or seek their blessing. I'm not saying he should have asked for consent, but it seems the right thing to do would be to at least discuss it over with them, outline his plans for the greatest hits compilation thing.

If they said no, he could have done it anyway, sure. Nothing legally wrong there. It's just a bit of a pissy thing to do to friends.

[Kitten]

It is nothing compared to what Brett did with The Offspring. Nitro legally and ethically had every right to release a compilation of AFI songs. They owned them outright.

[DarrellOCguy]

I work at wal-mart and i get off at 11pm and AFI's "Decemberunderground" was going to the sales floor at midnight but i bought it when i left tonight.

..getting on topic, i havent listened to it yet but i read the thanks and whatnot in the booklet and they didnt thank Dexter, Offspring, or Nitro in any way.

Btw, Davey, i hate your new "hairstyle".....awful...

[ilovellamas]

what bad religion did to offspring is not comparable to what nitro did to afi. what nitro did did not HURT afi in any way. I think it's shitty for afi to say "wahhhh, nitro released a comp of our songs without telling us, so we're not going to thank them for all the good things they've ever done for us."

[thecavedog]

they should kiss and make up

[Venom Symbiote]

Um, guys (Kitten and ILoveLlamas), not to sound dismissive or anything, but didn't you both just overlook my post a little?

I know what Nitro did had no "hurtful" effect on AFI whatsoever, aside from maybe their pride. Totally agreed. The whole thing is revolving around principle: I'm not arguing that Dexter didn't have the right to release it, he most certainly did. But, as a friend and somewhat "role model responsible big brother" figure to them throughout most of AFI's time as a band, maybe he should have put more stock in what they thought of the whole thing.

And Kitten, last time I checked, Guerewitz "had every right" to do what he did as well. :confused: He didn't break any code or highly-regarded commandment or anything, written or unwritten. Aside from an initial paycut (which I'm sure has evened out by now with Columbia after all these years, Americana era especially), The Offspring essentially came out better off in the long run from what went down there. Doesn't change the fact that it was wrong of him, basically morally and as a friend/mentor, to do it.

I guess the difference is, Guerewitz knowingly screwed them around. Dexter and his company didn't do this maliciously, I'm sure, so don't think that's what I'm insinuating. It was just an innocent cock-up, is all. However, that doesn't change the fact that in retrospect it was probably a mistake, not the right thing to do.

I don't hold it against him or whatever, though. These things happen.

[endlesst0m]

From what I've heard, Dexter "encouraged" AFI to move on to a major label. Why would Dexter do this at a point in time when he knew that AFI was still under contract for one more record on Nitro?

[igniton/pyro]

what did bad religion do to the offspring?

[jacknife737]

His actions were perfectly legal and from a business standpoint understandable, too

Ever hear of Business ethics?

[Athom]

To be honest, if Nitro where owed one more album and AFI wanted to leave, then the comp was the only viable way they could go. Unless of course they wanted to pay alot of money.

[momo1tx]

Sorry to sound like the idiot here, but which Nitro compilation are you referring to? I know of at least two with AFI included on them...

[Thomas]

To be honest, if Nitro where owed one more album and AFI wanted to leave, then the comp was the only viable way they could go. Unless of course they wanted to pay alot of money.
That is a very good point.

I dunno, I just always thought of Davey Havok as one of the biggest women in the music industry.

[igniton/pyro]

what did bad religion do to the offspring?
annyone?????

[Lupin]

screwed them over a little...although judging by AFI's new sound, i think the offspring are better off out of where they're going.

[Nineteen Seventy Nine]

http://i6.tinypic.com/11v1yt3.jpg

[Kitten]

VS. I didn't ignore your post, I just don't see what the huge problem is. Nitro owned the songs, it has a pretty good mix from all their Nitro albums, and allows new fans to get into the band. Thus allowing not only Nitro to make money, but the band itself.
Everyone seems to point out how greedy Nitro was in this, how about the fact the band doesn't exactly suffer either.

[Little_Miss_1565]

[QUOTE=Kitten
Everyone seems to point out how greedy Nitro was in this, how about the fact the band doesn't exactly suffer either.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. The band still get their mechanical royalties from the comp, whether they wanted it or not.

[Venom Symbiote]

Ever hear of Business ethics?


GAH! Dude, read the friggin' post. Business ethics are about 90% of what I was talking about there. Of course Brett was wrong with what he did to The Offspring, but it wasn't illegal, only ethically questionable. All I'm arguing is it's pretty much the same deal here with AFI. It's not illegal to do what he did with the compilation, but it's no less ethically derelict than what Brett did to him. Different circumstances, but the same general moral slippery-slope.

And to whoever's thinking I'm of the opinion AFI were "hurt" by the compilation, I'm not. I agree with you there.

But by that SAME LOGIC, were The Offspring "hurt" by moving to Columbia? Not really. They were, in the long-run, better off. But would they have preferred to not be screwed around and be able to stick with Epitaph? You bet, they've said that themselves.

AFI weren't hurt by the compilation, they might have even had things to gain from it, but did they want it released? Nope. So it's essentially the same thing, a matter of personal preference within the band. Brett should have respected The Offspring's wishes, and Dexter should have done the same with Davey and the guys.

But agreed, it's really not a big deal. He made the wrong call, but it's all water under the bridge really. I'm sure AFI's over it, I doubt it has anything to do with Dexter not being on the "thank you" list. Those are usually just formalities, listing everyone from the label and equipment representatives who have helped them out for that record. Since Dexter had nothing to do with this particular album, he's not on it.

Again: not a big deal.

[Kitten]

Look, a lot of people could use that record to get into AFI. AFI are not going to be suffering due to it's existance.
Brett pushed The Offspring onto another label, Nitro just released a collection of songs from previous albums (barring I think 1 new song). If it had bothered AFI all that much, they could have taken them to court.

[ilovellamas]

Dexter fucked them over with the compilation, they've got a right to be at least a little cold about it.

you used the words "fucked them over".

[Jakebert]

I think I'm the only person in this thread that gets what Venom is saying. Guys: Legally, Brett had the right to do everything he did. If he hadn't, Epitaph Records would have been sued for millions because of unfair business practices.The only thing he did wrong was keep going with his ideas after the Offspring said no.

With AFI, it's kind of the same situation, albeit on a smaller scale. AFI didn't want a compilation of their earlier work released, but Nitro saw a reason to release it because AFI was their biggest band, and they stood to make a decent amount of money with it. And again, Nitro had every right in the world to do that. Especially since now that AFI isn't on the label, a lot of that money would be going to helping out smaller, little known bands.

But the tieing element in both of these is that they were done without the band's consent of the band. Dexter should have known from experience that it hurts when a label does something like that, and should have at least asked the band if they could do it and explain his case.

[Venom Symbiote]

Agreed entirely. ^ That's all I'm putting forward here: Dexter, of all people, should know that just because something is legally possible in this industry doesn't mean it's a decent thing to do.


QUOTE:
"If it had bothered AFI all that much, they could have taken them to court."

Erm, no. Like we said, Nitro did nothing that could be even remotely considered as breaking the law. A clash in the courts would be pointless.



QUOTE:
"you used the words "fucked them over"".

Yes, I did. Because they were. Doesn't have to be illegal to be wrong. They were fucked over in the sense that they asked him not to do it, and he did it anyway.



But yeah. Once again, it's getting kind of out of hand now. I hate the phrase vehemently, but let's all "agree to disagree", hmm?

[Little_Miss_1565]

Yes, I did. Because they were. Doesn't have to be illegal to be wrong. They were fucked over in the sense that they asked him not to do it, and he did it anyway.

LOL. In no sense is that a fucking over.