Deadliest campus shooting

[ilovellamas]

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN1631133620070416

BLACKSBURG, Virginia (Reuters) - At least 32 people were killed and more than two dozen wounded at Virginia Tech university on Monday in the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history, media said.

Fox News, CNN and the student-run university newspaper gave the death toll as 32. Officials earlier said at least 22 people were killed.

The rampage by what police believed was a lone gunman took place in two separate areas, first at a dormitory as students had begun criss-crossing the sprawling campus for morning classes, and then about two hours later at an engineering and science hall a half-mile away.

The attacks sparked panic and chaos.

Witnesses told CNN that some students were hurt jumping out the windows of the classroom building to escape the gunfire.

"This is a tragedy of monumental proportions," Virginia Tech president Charles Steger told reporters.

Virginia Tech campus police chief Wendell Finchum said the suspected gunman was dead and that police were trying to determine whether he killed himself or was shot by officers.

[F@ BANKZ]

Big news, shootings like this arn't forgotten for a long long time, there are still dramtisations of the time the man went on a rampageover a decade ago in the UK.

Edit to Bazza: Yes

[Bazza]

I saw that on the news at 6pm (BST), and at that stage 21 were dead. One hour later the toll had gone up to 31.

It's pretty fucked up that some nutter takes it upon themselves to do shit like that and I can't even begin to imagine what the students at that university are feeling right now, especially the ones who were very lucky to escape.

[Bazza]

Big news, shootings like this arn't forgotten for a long long time, there are still dramtisations of the time the man went on a rampageover a decade ago in the UK.

Is that Dumblaine you are referring to? That brought a blanket ban for hand-guns in the UK.

[PilZ-E]

How are we suppose to discuss this?

It's a pretty fucked up thing to do, and takes a crazy person to carry something like this out. But until something like this happens at my school I'm going to continue being unaffected by it.

[Sin Studly]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

Yeah, gun control will stop them.

[Nineteen Seventy Nine]

Like I said in the other thread.

This Virginia Tech thing is really big. I mean, this will be something that we'll be talking about a lot the next ten years of our lives. 32 dead, 29 injured, is really bad. My little sister is a little older than I was during Columbine, so it'll have a similar effect on her. The thing is, this will probably have an equal effect as Columbine, even though it's twice as bad, because we're almost used to school shootings now.

And I was just informing all of my stupid MySpace friends of this story. For this is the deadliest shooting, not just school shooting, in U.S. history. I was glad I saw it right away as soon I got home from school at 2:30.

--
How are we suppose to discuss this?
Predictions on how everyone will react to it.

[ilovellamas]

I just find it really weird that there were two hours between shootings... and the campus didn't shut down after the first one.

[sKratch]

How are the cops unsure of whether one of them shot the guy or if he did himself in?

[0r4ng3]

How are the cops unsure of whether one of them shot the guy or if he did himself in?
I'm guessing the cops got into some kind of shootout with the guy to take him down, and they're not sure who's bullet killed him.

[Bazza]

I just find it really weird that there were two hours between shootings... and the campus didn't shut down after the first one.

Yeah what's the deal with that? How soon after the first incident were the police on the seen?

[ilovellamas]

The article says this:
"I'm pretty outraged that someone died in a shooting in a dorm at 7 O'clock in the morning and the first e-mail about it had no mention of locking down the campus, no mention of canceling classes," Jason Piatt told CNN. "They just mentioned that they were investigating a shooting," he said.

"That's pretty ridiculous. Meanwhile, while they sent out that e-mail, 21 people got killed."

It doesn't say how soon.

[JohnnyNemesis]

There's not much more to say aside from "this is fucking tragic" and, as I just said to Laura elsewhere, "how the fuck does the whole campus NOT get shut down to some degree between shootings?"

[ilovellamas]

There's not much more to say aside from "this is fucking tragic" and, as I just said to Laura elsewhere, "how the fuck does the whole campus NOT get shut down to some degree between shootings?"

*sigh* Virginia.

Also, "President George W. Bush was "horrified" by the shooting, White House spokeswoman Dana"

Horrified? Wow, that's profound.

[wheelchairman]

I wonder which ridiculous reason the media will use to pin all possible blame on this shooting. Godlessness? Death metal? Availability of guns?

It's also interesting that it wasn't a high school. You'd expect the ostracizing atmosphere of American high schools to create psychopaths, not the relative anonymity of university life.

sKratch, I think the confusion comes from that it's a breaking news story. Aside from the death count and timing, it seems to be a lot of rumors.

I have a fundamental feeling of disgust rising in the biles of my throat at the moment.

[wheelchairman]

*sigh* Virginia.

Also, "President George W. Bush was "horrified" by the shooting, White House spokeswoman Dana"

Horrified? Wow, that's profound.
Well it's only 32 people, he's helped kill a whole lot more Americans.

[ilovellamas]

I wonder which ridiculous reason the media will use to pin all possible blame on this shooting. Godlessness? Death metal? Availability of guns?
The shooter was Asian. I wonder if that will come into play somehow.

It's also interesting that it wasn't a high school. You'd expect the ostracizing atmosphere of American high schools to create psychopaths, not the relative anonymity of university life.
I thought the same thing. They've found no motive so far...

Well it's only 32 people, he's helped kill a whole lot more Americans.
Hmm, good point...

[0r4ng3]

I wonder which ridiculous reason the media will use to pin all possible blame on this shooting. Godlessness? Death metal? Availability of guns?
If we're lucky, they'll throw video games in there somewhere. It's the new "thing".

"Wii Sports turned me into a killer!"

[wheelchairman]

The shooter was Asian. I wonder if that will come into play somehow.



Well then the whole motive thing is solved. Penis envy.

http://superdickery.com/images/dick/216_4_008.jpg

Superman and Batman agree.

[ilovellamas]

lol.
Well then the whole motive thing is solved. Penis envy.
I wonder then if the primary victims were blacks. and why is ricky still alive?

[the_GoDdEsS]

Whoa, not sure if it was on our news tonight, have not watched.

The shooter is reportedly an Asian male in his early 20s, dressed in a black leather jacket and a maroon baseball cap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Virginia_Tech_massacre

And really strange they did not close all buildings after somebody got killed and the guy was still out there.

[Vera]

Yeah, what was the reporting like?

"Hi, is this the police?"
"Yes."
"Okay, cool, so we got this guy sorta shooting up the place.. If you could drop by would be awesome."
"Um, yeah, we've got lunch in 10 mins.."
"It's cool it's cool, just come by whenever you can."
"Yeah, alright. See ya there!"
"Bring your bullet-proof vests!"

[Nina]

I hope that guy wrote a good-bye letter that explains his actions. But most likely he didnt. Let the "zomg video games! ew marilyn manson!!!" bashing begin.

[0r4ng3]

I hope that guy wrote a good-bye letter that explains his actions. But most likely he didnt. Let the "zomg video games! ew marilyn manson!!!" bashing begin.
Done and done.

http://kotaku.com/gaming/virginia-tech/breaking-idiot-blames-va-shooting-on-games-252702.php

[Bazza]

33 now....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6560685.stm

[PilZ-E]

Bush was also "shocked and saddened".

It will be interesting to see how this develops.

[ilovellamas]

Bush was also "shocked and saddened".

It will be interesting to see how this develops.

Those are some big words... Bush must've gotten help writing that speech.

[0r4ng3]

So now he's "horrified" (from an earlier report), "shocked", and "saddened".

Y'know, it would help ease the pain of the tragedy a bit if he adds "flabbergasted" to the list.

[Bazza]

Those are some big words... Bush must've gotten help writing that speech.

I think it's more of a case of how the hell has he managed to think up two emotions at the same time, god that must've got him thinking...

[Lodat225]

Who cares? As long as it didn't happen to me.

[Paint_It_Black]

I'm shocked and saddened, maybe even a little flabbergasted, that this thread has become about Bush bashing.

Who cares? As long as it didn't happen to me.

Lodat's too punx to care. He's so awesome.

[HornyPope]

No one called the shooter the T-word yet?

[Lodat225]

I'm shocked and saddened, maybe even a little flabbergasted, that this thread has become about Bush bashing.



Lodat's too punx to care. He's so awesome.

yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[0r4ng3]

Who cares? As long as it didn't happen to me.
I know no one here is uber-sensitive about the news, but seriously, shut the fuck up.

[Paint_It_Black]

I know no one here is uber-sensitive about the news, but seriously, shut the fuck up.

Right. It's got nothing to do with being sensitive, it's just that Lodat is pathetic.

[wheelchairman]

No one called the shooter the T-word yet?

Thibault? That asiatic bastard.

[loud_noises!]

yea, on some local news station around here they released one of the victims names who died. he had 3 fucking degree's and was about to graduate. i think it said he was from GA. and he was black (just throwing that out there...not implying anything). oh yea and his name was Ryan Clark it said.

but that would suck, that kid worked his ass off only to die in a classroom.

[HeadAroundU]

Am I watching South park or is it real?

[Paint_It_Black]

Thibault? That asiatic bastard.

I was going to make that same post. I got as far as typing "Thibault?" but couldn't think of anything worthwhile to continue on with. Damn 10 character rule.

[wheelchairman]

I was going to make that same post. I got as far as typing "Thibault?" but couldn't think of anything worthwhile to continue on with. Damn 10 character rule.

Well thankfully I'm not hampered by a British education...

[The Talking Pie]

They just don't make 'em like they used to...

[Venom Symbiote]

Holy shit, 30 people. That's insane, that has to be some kind of record. What was the Port Arthur one in Australia, twenty-something? I'm pretty sure that was the biggest massacre by one person in the world at one stage.

That's fucking horrible. Man psycho kids suck.

[0r4ng3]

That's insane, that has to be some kind of record.
Yeah, it is. As Wally pointed out earlier, it's the deadliest shooting in US history, and certainly the deadliest campus/school shooting. It's crazy.

[Venom Symbiote]

(Yeah, sorry, I kind of skipped to the last page. I usually read most of the stuff in threads, but yeah. Jeez. Well, this sucks.)

[JohnnyNemesis]

Done and done.

http://kotaku.com/gaming/virginia-tech/breaking-idiot-blames-va-shooting-on-games-252702.php

Holy SHIT, that was quick.

[Venom Symbiote]

Fucking Jack fucking Thompson fucking fucking. :( He makes me sad, seriously.

[Endymion]

biggest mass murder is us history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

[T-6005]

I was going to make that same post. I got as far as typing "Thibault?" but couldn't think of anything worthwhile to continue on with. Damn 10 character rule.
It's hard to follow up, isn't it?

I was trying to decipher the captioning of CNN while I was at the student bar earlier getting lunch. It's very strange, but as I expected they started to pin the blame on anything and everything.

[coke_a_holic]

I live very close to the campus, so it's been especially frightening for me. I actually know a few kids who are enrolled in the school, and even more that have applied/are applying there. It's very intense, and every news station in the entire DC Area is focused on it.

[sKratch]

Those are some big words... Bush must've gotten help writing that speech.

So now he's "horrified" (from an earlier report), "shocked", and "saddened".

Y'know, it would help ease the pain of the tragedy a bit if he adds "flabbergasted" to the list.

I don't really see how this is a legitimate complaint beyond fairly shallow Bush-bashing. They're one-word quotes stuck in a news article somewhere... what was Bush supposed to say, exactly?

[0r4ng3]

I wasn't bashing, I was simply making a joke. Also I like the word "flabbergasted".

[JohnnyNemesis]

I don't wanna drag this thing out any further, but why so defensive over the Bush bashing anyway? The BBS community here almost always brings all sorts of ridiculous bashing of anyone/thing and everyone/thing into any thread no matter how tasteless or off-topic it may be.

Anyway, Superman and Batman pwned me there.

[ilovellamas]

I don't really see how this is a legitimate complaint beyond fairly shallow Bush-bashing. They're one-word quotes stuck in a news article somewhere... what was Bush supposed to say, exactly?

Because everything I've read about what Bush said just says that he was horrified, saddened and shocked. I couldn't really find anything that showed that he actually cared.

Yet my home University's president, which is half a country away, sent out an email to every student on campus saying, "Today's news of the tragic shootings at Virginia Tech University gives us all reason for pause. Our thoughts and
prayers go out to all of those impacted by this tragedy. Unfortunately, the best planning and preparation in the world are sometimes not enough to prevent random acts of violence. We are all shaken and deeply saddened by this horrific tragedy at Virginia Tech."

Seems somewhat surprising that the University of Minnesota's president cares more about this than the President of the US.

Regardless of all that, I don't really care what Bush said. He doesn't shock me anymore, and I don't care about him. I was merely poking fun.

[HornyPope]

He did it with only two handguns too. I can't find details, does anyone know how the fuck he made it alive for so long? Is there no security in the college, are the police half an hour away? Either the guy is a pro (military training) or someone owes a looot of answers.

[T-6005]

He was shooting at a bunch of defenseless students until the police arrived and according to the news I just watched, had enough ammunition to "take out a village."

You don't need the biggest machinegun ever to shoot at people penned up in a classroom with no weapons of their own, I imagine.

[HornyPope]

He has what, 10 rounds in a mag? Even if we assume that every shot hit a target, it's still not a guarantee that it's fatal, though it's obviously easy to finish off the wounded. Meanwhile, others can run. The shooter would have to then catch up with the crowd and find a way to kill 20 more students.

Remember that punkass Gill in Montreal? He shot like 8 people (one dead) before the cops gunned him down.

Btw, George Bush obviously doesn't care about students.

[ilovellamas]

Running doesn't work so well where he was shooting. In a dorm, the halls are usually kinda dark and narrow, so you can't really see what's going on. And if you're not near your room, you can run, but you're running down a hallway with nowhere to go, so bullets are still flying at you. In a classroom, the only way out is the door where the shooter is standing... or jumping out a window. The article says that some students did jump out the window and suffered just as bad of injuries as many people who were shot.

It also didn't say how big this class was. If it was a science course, at a University of like 30,000 people, I assume it was a nice big lecture where he had a couple hundred people to shoot at. Therefore, he probably had pretty good odds.

[nieh]

He has what, 10 rounds in a mag? Even if we assume that every shot hit a target, it's still not a guarantee that it's fatal, though it's obviously easy to finish off the wounded. Meanwhile, others can run. The shooter would have to then catch up with the crowd and find a way to kill 20 more students.

If the shooter is standing in the only doorway into the classroom, the only way out is jumping out the windows which some of the kids did.

[HornyPope]

Ah, so he blocked the classroom exit. Yeah makes sense, he could have had dozens of victims trapped right there.

Students should have charged him then. It just kind of sad always to read about how bad people trump the good people. It just seems that the good people in this world are such fucking pussies. How come I can't wake up instead to a story of few brave students taking down the maniac at the cost of their life?

[ilovellamas]

Students should have charged him then. It just kind of sad always to read about how bad people trump the good people. It just seems that the good people in this world are such fucking pussies. How come I can't wake up instead to a story of few brave students taking down the maniac at the cost of their life?

This reminded me way too much of Maria's kicking-the-dog-in-the-head idea. Though maybe less insane. ;)

[PilZ-E]

Ha, I thought about Maria's "try to take four shotgun wielding kids unarmed" plan.

But what HornyPope said makes a lot more sense. They are probably going to get shot regardless they might as well get shot trying to take him down. Plus there had to be at least 50 kids in that class room they could have easily taken him down. But it must take an unfathomably large amount of courage to rush and armed man.

[ilovellamas]

Ha, I thought about Maria's "try to take four shotgun wielding kids unarmed" plan.

But what HornyPope said makes a lot more sense. They are probably going to get shot regardless they might as well get shot trying to take him down. Plus there had to be at least 50 kids in that class room they could have easily taken him down. But it must take an unfathomably large amount of courage to rush and armed man.

It also takes some sort of planning, and that's really hard when the guy is already shooting.

[Venom Symbiote]

Yeah, HornyPope has a point here.

I mean, I'm sure this will be jumped all over and ripped apart since it's me saying it, but he's right. I'm not entirely sure of the circumstances, or how long it takes to re-load a handgun, but he has to re-load sometime, right?

It's in the middle of a college, wouldn't...someone have rushed him?

I mean, gun or otherwise, 5 or 10 unarmed guys can still crash-tackle you and you won't have a chance.

Handguns have what, 6 or 8 bullets? How does he kill 30 people?

Maybe he has military training or whatever, but that sounds unlikely.

It just seems that in the middle of a big school, people would at least kind of try to mobilise to take him out while he's re-fitting another magazine into the gun. Like, it's harsh, one or two people might be shot in the process, but with a person like that people would be getting shot anyway, y'know?

It's the same as like three guys hi-jacking a jetliner. I don't really understand how that works. The Pennsylvania thing on 9/11 seems to be how it should work, as soon as the hi-jacker says "we're gonna crash the plane into a target, so all of you sit the fuck down", why wouldn't the passengers try to take over the plane? That would seem to be the natural reaction.

Same deal here. If you knew he was just going to insanely and ruthlessly shoot everyone left-right-and-centre, why wouldn't a group of people rush him? Knowing if they don't they're probably dead anyway?

[nieh]

It's the same as like three guys hi-jacking a jetliner. I don't really understand how that works. The Pennsylvania thing on 9/11 seems to be how it should work, as soon as the hi-jacker says "we're gonna crash the plane into a target, so all of you sit the fuck down", why wouldn't the passengers try to take over the plane? That would seem to be the natural reaction.

That's exactly what I was thinking. In case it's not obvious by the fact that that was the only one of the planes where anyone did anything, the vast majority of people are cowards. Going after some random shooter in a school would probably be a bit different though. We don't know enough about the situation yet to say what happened. Maybe things happened quick enough that people couldn't really plan something. The fact that the second set of shootings happened 2 hours later doesn't mean anything if no one knew about it.
edit: plus, with the planes, EVERYONE was guaranteed to die. With the shooting, the guy would have to to run out of bullets sometime, and most people probably figure playing the hero would just make them a target.

[T-6005]

The first reflex during a shooting would be to try and hide until it was over.

Wouldn't you simply assume it was one guy trying another guy, instead of some guy on a rampage?

[PilZ-E]

He had two guns and to be fair it takes a lot of guts and organization (as llamas stated) to rush a pistol wielding man. He was locked in a classroom as well, it wasn't like he was standing in the middle of campus shooting people.

He could have shot 20+ before there was time to formulate any type of plan and couple that with panic it would have made it very difficult to take this guy down.

[HornyPope]

I could understand if it happened in like fucking Sweden or something, but America is supposed to be a militaristic country. You're in a war, remember? You're #1 and you can kick anyone's ass. You'd hope that in the States if nowhere else some students have the balls to try and take him down.

I'm not saying that these kids don't have an excuse, I wouldn't expect anything less from 21st century pussies. But please, for once, can't humanity surprise me in a positive way? Can't there be ONE hero?

[PilZ-E]

For all we know there was an attempt to take him down, though very unlikely.

[nieh]

the vast majority of people are cowards.

I feel the need to point out that as much as this fact sometimes disgusts me, I can't say I wouldn't be the same way. I've never been in a situation like that and even though I'd like to imagine myself jumping up doing something, I don't know if I'd actually be able to do that once shots have been fired.

[Rag Doll]

my local news just said the shooter offed himself. dunno if that is definitely confirmed, but that's what they said.

[ruroken]

"Wii Sports turned me into a killer!"
You know they're going to when Manhunt 2 and RE4 come out. I want to play Super Columbine Massacre RPG.

[Venom Symbiote]

You know what's sad? This guy will probably get a funeral/burial/cremation/whatever. That shits me.

As for the decision on whether to hide or do something, I'm not so sure that's bravery or cowardice either way. Like, I'd probably try to tackle him if it was realistically possible (if he was facing the other way and there was a reasonable chance of it working), but that's not bravery, that's just figuring "I'm probably dead anyway".

[Homer]

So, you guys were expecting that they would rise up, and be heroes by jumping in front of two firing handguns? Shit, I don't know about you, but if I went walking into my everyday class on a Monday morning expecting to have an ordinary day while all of a sudden a guy came in with two handguns and started to shoot at people, I'd be scared shitless. I would not think "Hey, maybe should run at the guy and see if I can get him!" So, I guess that automatically makes me and all the people in the classroom a bunch of pussies, huh? I mean, it shouldn't have taken more than a minute to kill off 20 people, if he was planning the entire thing. Show some fucking remorse.

[goonadie1day]

From what i understand, the guy was arguing with his girlfriend because she had "supposedly" cheated on him. At first he shot her, as i am lead to believe, but the school didnt shut down, because it was "isolated" and then all hell broke loose.

I just, it scares me. There was a kid a couple of weeks ago that brought a gun (unloaded) and a knife to school. I hope this shit never happens around here.

I keep praying for them.

[0r4ng3]

Regarding the "hero" discussion: Coincidentally, this article was posted like five minutes ago. A professor sacrificed his life to save a room of students.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/bal-students0416,0,803874.story?coll=bal-nationworld-headlines

[PilZ-E]

Do they not have keys? I know that all of our teachers have a key to there classroom door and can lock it in seconds.

[ruroken]

pfff you're afraid of death? This shit happens a lot lately, and I've even heard of people bringing sawed-off shotguns to my school, and still I don't worry. Mainly because it'd be used against the teachers. And also because I can't do anything about it.

[goonadie1day]

Well last year, a kid was going to kill a couple people and he ended up killing himself, i felt horrible. Yes, i am scared.

[ruroken]

Haha, I just noticed what your username is. Rather hypocritical (or does it qualify as ironic?)

[0r4ng3]

Well, she may die one day, but that doesn't mean that she's not scared of it.

[ruroken]

Well, yeah, but by saying it, wouldn't that mean you've come to terms with the fact? Accepted your fate?

[T-6005]

Well, she may die one day
It seems pretty likely.

And shut up, ruroken. You're a fucking idiot.

Person: I think I'll have lunch today.
Ruroken: Yeah, well by saying that, aren't you admitting that hybrid cars are useless?
Person: Uh, no. I don't really have an opinion on that.
Ruroken: Yeah, well wouldn't THAT mean that you're part of the Bush supporters through being apathetic?

[Twinkle]

This shooting shocked me to the core. I cannot imagine being someone who lost a friend or a parent losing a child like some people had to be today. It hits close to home because I know someone very well who attends there, and was in Norris Hall when it happened. Just the fact that people were jumping out of windows to escape from the shooter brings back Sept. 11th. I found out about 2PM today, and I cried for all those who sent their child away thinking they were safe, only to find out today they won't ever see them again. I just hope that God is with those families in their time of need right now and that those families are just comforted. It's just so sad that this occurred..just so sad.

[HornyPope]

So, you guys were expecting that they would rise up, and be heroes by jumping in front of two firing handguns? Shit, I don't know about you, but if I went walking into my everyday class on a Monday morning expecting to have an ordinary day while all of a sudden a guy came in with two handguns and started to shoot at people, I'd be scared shitless. I would not think "Hey, maybe should run at the guy and see if I can get him!" So, I guess that automatically makes me and all the people in the classroom a bunch of pussies, huh? I mean, it shouldn't have taken more than a minute to kill off 20 people, if he was planning the entire thing. Show some fucking remorse.

I feel the need to point out that as much as this fact sometimes disgusts me, I can't say I wouldn't be the same way. I've never been in a situation like that and even though I'd like to imagine myself jumping up doing something, I don't know if I'd actually be able to do that once shots have been fired.

I don't blame either of you. It's "normal". It's so normal that I don't care. After all, millions of people die a normal death everyday.

The tragedy itself is merely an occurance. It's only an occurance that in a nation of 300 millions someone will go koo-koo and shoot up a bunch of kids. It happens and it's terrible; people are sick, sick fuckers and none of us is protected against that. But it's the response from everyone present that leaves me dissapointed. How come that when someone does something really bad, no is able to stop him? Instead we shower the can-nots in excuses and accept their mediocrity and impotence as the accepted norm.

[goonadie1day]

Well, she may die one day, but that doesn't mean that she's not scared of it.

Well, im not going to lie, i don't see myself living forever. You know, there was a point in my life that death was all that i wanted. That was probably the most pathetic point of my life. I won't go into detail, because i don't think anyone wants to hear about that, but... yes nowadays death scares me.

Well, yeah, but by saying it, wouldn't that mean you've come to terms with the fact? Accepted your fate?

I think all of us realize we are going to die one day. Still, there is an unknown aspect, and although i believe in god with everything that i am... well i'm not going to lie. I am scared of there just being nothing. I am scared of dying in pain. Et cetera, et cetera.

It seems pretty likely.

And shut up, ruroken. You're a fucking idiot.

Person: I think I'll have lunch today.
Ruroken: Yeah, well by saying that, aren't you admitting that hybrid cars are useless?
Person: Uh, no. I don't really have an opinion on that.
Ruroken: Yeah, well wouldn't THAT mean that you're part of the Bush supporters through being apathetic?

:D Quoted for absolute 'truthiness'

[Venom Symbiote]

So, you guys were expecting that they would rise up, and be heroes by jumping in front of two firing handguns? Shit, I don't know about you, but if I went walking into my everyday class on a Monday morning expecting to have an ordinary day while all of a sudden a guy came in with two handguns and started to shoot at people, I'd be scared shitless. I would not think "Hey, maybe should run at the guy and see if I can get him!" So, I guess that automatically makes me and all the people in the classroom a bunch of pussies, huh? I mean, it shouldn't have taken more than a minute to kill off 20 people, if he was planning the entire thing. Show some fucking remorse.

Oh, come on. It's not being disrespectful. I'm just wondering how the hell a guy with two 6 bullet handguns can end up killing 30 people without being taken down in the process.

Yes, element of surprise, I get that. Yes, people were scared shitless, too shocked to do anything. Fine. But what I'm saying is, maybe we should in some ways expect this sort of shit, and have a plan to at least act and try to stop it.

I'm not calling them cowards. Other people might be, but whatever, that's not what I'm trying to get at here.

It's just pretty fucking sick how some insane Asian with a couple of Glocks or whatever can successfully kill that many innocent people, when, really, he shouldn't be able to. Yes, it would be scary as fuck running at a madman with a gun and trying to knock him out with your fist, but like...what would the other option be? You could potentially stop him from killing MORE people, and if you DON'T do it you're probably going to take a bullet through the head while you sit at your desk anyway.

[ninthlayer]

So Bri, did you expect Bush to send out a mass e-mail to all American citizens? What the fuck is the guy supposed to do? "Blah blah blah, shocked and dismayed, blah blah blah." It's just fucking lip service that people want anyway.

Yeah, what happened is scary and everyone wants to know more (motivation, details, etc.), but to pretend that this affects you somehow on a personal level is bullshit.

Btw, Andrew Kehoe puts the Virgina Tech and Lolumbine school shootings to shame. He wrecked a bunch of kids and pulled it off in the most villainous way possible. What kind of smooth motherfucker pulls up to the place he just blew the fuck out of and beckons his boss over to his car so they can eat it together? A very smooth one.

[khaaaaan]

*high fives ninth*

[ninthlayer]

Sc-Sc-Sc-Score.

[Sin Studly]

Holy shit, 30 people. That's insane, that has to be some kind of record. What was the Port Arthur one in Australia, twenty-something? I'm pretty sure that was the biggest massacre by one person in the world at one stage.

Port Arthur was 35 killed. Australians still hold the record.

[wheelchairman]

Vlad this is the story you want:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kip_Kinkel#May_21:_Shooting_at_Thurston_High

And it of course comes from Lane County Oregon. A county of men.

[Offspring-Junkie]

that's tough.

[DeAtHsTaR]

Vlad this is the story you want:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kip_Kinkel#May_21:_Shooting_at_Thurston_High

And it of course comes from Lane County Oregon. A county of men.

Some kid got shot just last year at a school in Eugene, he didn't die though.

[ruroken]

Person: I think I'll have lunch today.
Ruroken: Yeah, well by saying that, aren't you admitting that hybrid cars are useless?
Person: Uh, no. I don't really have an opinion on that.
Ruroken: Yeah, well wouldn't THAT mean that you're part of the Bush supporters through being apathetic?
hahahaha :cool:

[Mota Boy]

At least this happened at the end of the school year instead of the beginning, so that it gives the general student body a few months to cool off. School shootings always seem to cycle, and with this receiving the crushing, 24-hour news coverage it invariably will, it's reasonably likely that some other kid will snap in a similar fashion.

[Sinister]

People need to 1) understand life is a bitch more often than not, and 2) learn to fucking deal with it without harming anyone (else).

[wheelchairman]

Some kid got shot just last year at a school in Eugene, he didn't die though.

Really? Do you know which school?

[F@ BANKZ]

A kid at our primary school was almost attacked with a knife by another pupil but he got away; it never got in a paper and the kid with a knife never got into much trouble about it. I think the school didn't want to have it's rep damaged.

[Jakebert]

People need to 1) understand life is a bitch more often than not, and 2) learn to fucking deal with it without harming anyone (else).

Wow, how come no one has thought of that before? Profound!

Some stupid kid at my school wore a Virginia tech t-shirt today.

[F@ BANKZ]

Some stupid kid at my school wore a Virginia tech t-shirt today.

Please tell me you have chavs where you are, because this is exactly when they would are needed.

[wheelchairman]

Some stupid kid at my school wore a Virginia tech t-shirt today.

How is this stupid?

[Jakebert]

Because, he either wore it for attention or because he wasn't thinking. The latter isn't as dumb as the first one, but I still think it's kind of dumb.

[wheelchairman]

But why do you assume it was for attention?

On one hand I agree with you, after a tragedy people who weren't the victims try to act as though they were the victims.

On the other hand, he might just truly sympathise.

[Sinister]

Wow, how come no one has thought of that before? Profound!
Somebody must have though of it. My point is, if you can't deal with life being a bitch, fucking leave, but let people who can deal keep on doing so.

[F@ BANKZ]

Yeah but this wasn't a natural disaster, somebody cut 30 people down with bullets in cold blood, I wouldn't blame people if it's a little worrying for them.

[Sinister]

I'm saying that guy should have just killed himself. No need to take 30-some sane people down with him.

[wheelchairman]

Yeah but this wasn't a natural disaster, somebody cut 30 people down with bullets in cold blood, I wouldn't blame people if it's a little worrying for them.

What're you talking about?

[Sinister]

I think he misread my first explanatory post.

[F@ BANKZ]

oh yeah... oops:o

[Lodat225]

The kid could be stupid in the first place and wore the shirt.

[goonadie1day]

Could the guy have worn the shirt out of respect/support? Doesn't make him dumb.

[Homer]

blah blah blah

Now let's think about this very carefully. He was at the only exit from the classroom. Okay, now think of a big university classroom, now imagine you with two pistols. How long do you think it would take to take down 30 people?

[wheelchairman]

Could the guy have worn the shirt out of respect/support? Doesn't make him dumb.

Do you have to join every argument? Or do you just enjoy dumbing down other peoples arguments to your level?

[HornyPope]

Vlad this is the story you want:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kip_Kinkel#May_21:_Shooting_at_Thurston_High

And it of course comes from Lane County Oregon. A county of men.

It's a good story. He's a special person who died a worthy death.

[DeAtHsTaR]

Really? Do you know which school?

No. Hell, it might have been another city. But I think it was Eugene. They made a big deal out of it at my school.

edit: it was in Roseburg.

[JohnnyNemesis]

I know this makes me a total scumbag, but Twinkle's post really rubbed me the wrong way.

[Sin Studly]

I agree, Twinkle is annoying.

http://pr0n.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/a/a3/Vt_howmanydied_banner.gif

[BurningSnake]

I think there was 2 gunman that shot down those people
I mean 2 places in a couple o minutes??? thats sound kinda weird isnt????
plus the shooting happened in 2 places thats cut between halfamile away from one another

[wheelchairman]

Johnny, I think your sentiments might agree with this.



On one hand I agree with you, after a tragedy people who weren't the victims try to act as though they were the victims. And it's really fucking annoying.

[Jakebert]

Somebody must have though of it. My point is, if you can't deal with life being a bitch, fucking leave, but let people who can deal keep on doing so.

I know what you ment. You're still just pointing out the obvious and sounding dumb.

[Paint_It_Black]

What the fuck, you guys actually read Twinkle's posts? I just see the name, take a moment to mourn the loss of the best damn eyebrows ever, then move the fuck on.

[Sin Studly]

I always read her posts carefully for hints on where those damned WMD's are.

[Venom Symbiote]

Now let's think about this very carefully. He was at the only exit from the classroom. Okay, now think of a big university classroom, now imagine you with two pistols. How long do you think it would take to take down 30 people?

If it was necessary to reload after every 6 or 8 shots? Um, a significant while, especially since he was apparently pumping more than one bullet into most of the people, and spraying ammunition into doors. 30 people?

How long does it take to reload a gun? I don't know. But I'm guessing it'd be like at least 5 or 10 seconds to replace a magazine. If he's inside a classroom inside a bigger building FILLED with other classrooms, lots of people in the building, more than just the people inside the one target room, you'd think someone from one of those other rooms would try to make a move. Run up in his blind spot or whatever.

In other related news, anyone else see on the cable channels how apparently a lot of Korean Americans are leaving campus because of racial retaliation? That's so retarded. That's almost as bad as the "videogamez did itz!" thing, the fact that people would think "hey, the guy was born in Korea! Let's get the Korean kids!"

Fuck I hate group mentalities.

[Sinister]

I think there was 2 gunman that shot down those people
I mean 2 places in a couple o minutes??? thats sound kinda weird isnt????
plus the shooting happened in 2 places thats cut between halfamile away from one another

It wasn't "a couple of minutes", I think I've heard something like two hours, and that tells a lot about campus police efficiency if it took them longer than that to find the guy.

[Sin Studly]

How long does it take to reload a gun? I don't know. But I'm guessing it'd be like at least 5 or 10 seconds to replace a magazine.

They were revolvers, right? A couple of seconds with a speedloader, half a minute without one.

[ilovellamas]

I'm pretty sure he had semi-automatics. He was wearing a vest with a whole ton of carts on it, and two semis. He didn't have to take the time to reload like it does with normal handguns.

[Linda]

MSN has pictures up of some of the people that were killed.
It's so sad when something like this happenes, even sadder
knowing that some day it will happen again somewhere else.

[Sin Studly]

I'm pretty sure he had semi-automatics. He was wearing a vest with a whole ton of carts on it, and two semis. He didn't have to take the time to reload like it does with normal handguns.

Semi-automatics take even longer to reload, unless you have spare magazines.

[ilovellamas]

But they hold more bullets, right? I mean, to shoot 32 people, you wouldn't need to reload if you have two guns?

[Linda]

Here's an article about the gunman's gun purchase.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18170761/

[JoY]

I can't believe this discussion is taking place. "how long would it take to shoot 32 people, considering optional reloading" - guys, 32 people are dead. how the shit one establishes that isn't one millionth as interesting as why things like these happen. genuine interest in how exactly killing 32 people is brought into practice smells like online disaster tourism. what happened is fucking sad & tragic, NEXT.

[Sin Studly]

Glock 19 is a 17 round mag, but can take a 33-round mag (hich I thought was illegal in America). Walther P22 is 10 round.

[JoY]

What the fuck, you guys actually read Twinkle's posts? I just see the name, take a moment to mourn the loss of the best damn eyebrows ever, then move the fuck on.

it had some entertainment value, though. "I'M PERSONALLY AFFECTED, I HURT SO MUCH FOR THE PEOPLE WHO LOST THEIR CHILD, MY LIFE WILL NEVER BE THE SAME", oh noes, how could the killer do this to you. & I love the part where everyone suddenly feels involved, because they know someone who is kind of involved, because he/she is from like, around that area, only just a billion kilometers away & like, he/she knows someone, who knows someone, who has an aunt, who has a child, who has a friend, who died there.

just wait & see, Twinkle; tomorrow you'll just live your usual life, doing your usual things & the world is just spinning on & on like nothing ever happened.

[ilovellamas]

Glock 19 is a 17 round mag, but can take a 33-round mag (hich I thought was illegal in America). Walther P22 is 10 round.

So those are just normal handguns... but he had enough ammo to kill all those people without reloading?

it had some entertainment value, though. "I'M PERSONALLY AFFECTED, I HURT SO MUCH FOR THE PEOPLE WHO LOST THEIR CHILD, MY LIFE WILL NEVER BE THE SAME", oh noes, how could the killer do this to you. & I love the part where everyone suddenly feels involved, because they know someone who is kind of involved, because he/she is from like, around that area, only just a billion kilometers away & like, he/she knows someone, who knows someone, who has an aunt, who has a child, who has a friend, who died there.

just wait & see, Twinkle; tomorrow you'll just live your usual life, doing your usual things & the world is just spinning on & on like nothing ever happened.

It's true. I mean, I brought up the incident to a friend who lives here in Austria, but studied for a year in Virginia. She was initially shocked that it happened in the state she studied, but she's not all "omg I'm so affected by it sobbbbzz".

It's almost as bad as after 9/11 when my mom was like "OHMIGAWD YOUR DAD (or, former step dad now) WAS IN THE WTC LIKE 4 MONTHS AGO!!!!" and acted all personally affected by it. I was like, wow. Four months ago. And? It's not like he was planning on going back ever. It's not like we live anywhere near the place. It was so stupid.

[Sin Studly]

So those are just normal handguns... but he had enough ammo to kill all those people without reloading?

Uh, if he used the extended mag on the Glock and scored 33 fatal shots out of 43, including himself, which I severely doubt. Probably he just brought preloaded spare magazines.

[sKratch]

Glock 19 is a 17 round mag, but can take a 33-round mag (hich I thought was illegal in America). Walther P22 is 10 round.

According to the article Linda posted (which has a huge subtext of pro-gun control rhetoric) the 10-bullet magazine capacity limit expired in 2004.

Assuming the kid had magazines loaded with bullets, it would only take him seconds to reload, as has already been said. Otherwise he'd have to sit there and put 17 bullets back into the magazine.

[sKratch]

I can't believe this discussion is taking place. "how long would it take to shoot 32 people, considering optional reloading" - guys, 32 people are dead. how the shit one establishes that isn't one millionth as interesting as why things like these happen. genuine interest in how exactly killing 32 people is brought into practice smells like online disaster tourism. what happened is fucking sad & tragic, NEXT.

The point they are trying to make, I think, is that it sounds like the whole thing took some time to happen. Maybe enough time that it's strange that the guy didn't get stopped faster. It's not so much just dissecting how to kill 32 people in as little time as possible.

[HeadAroundU]

I have just read Slovak article, there was no less than 3 bullets in every body.

[Grabbal]

So Norwegian newspapers have to different number of deaths, 32 and 33.

How many were there??

[Mota Boy]

Thirty-three, including the killer.

[Lodat225]

So... do you think an accomplice was involved to send the packages to NBC? It clearly wasn't him 'cause ... y'know. He's dead.

[0r4ng3]

Goddamnit people have been telling me that all day.

[Lodat225]

I don't think it looks like him. Well, asians do look alike but ... yeah, it looks sorta like him.

[ilovellamas]

Was there a link somewhere? Or could someone post one?

[Lodat225]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/18/vtech.shooting/

[JohnnyNemesis]

He honestly looks absolutely nothing like anything even remotely resembling Jesse in any way whatsoever.

[wheelchairman]

He honestly looks absolutely nothing like anything even remotely resembling Jesse in any way whatsoever.

You're just worried that one of us is gonna say he looks like you!

[Lodat225]

But he does look like Ricky.

[Venom Symbiote]

I can't believe this discussion is taking place. "how long would it take to shoot 32 people, considering optional reloading" - guys, 32 people are dead. how the shit one establishes that isn't one millionth as interesting as why things like these happen. genuine interest in how exactly killing 32 people is brought into practice smells like online disaster tourism. what happened is fucking sad & tragic, NEXT.

Don't use that bullshit on me. This isn't about "oh, cool the guy had skillz! lololz", fuck you, don't put that on me.

Like Skratch said, we're trying to figure out how the hell he got 32 people with those sorts of guns, in that situation. It doesn't make much sense to me, personally.

All I'm saying is that it probably shouldn't have been this bad. It didn't need to be that many people. As psycho as this fucker was, the police/campus security and even students could have mounted an effort to stop him.

One little skinny asian kid with two pistols (they weren't automatic rapid-fire things like someone suggested) shouldn't be able to kill 32 innocent people without being taken down.

Obviously he did it, so I know what you're saying, it doesn't really matter anymore, it only matters about fixing it as best we can, helping the victim's families and all. Sure. But that's not really what we're talking about at all here.

A 2 hour gap between shootings? And the fact he did all this with two little "bang bang" simple handguns? It's discussion-worthy. So please stop being a bitch.

[wheelchairman]

Don't get me started on Ricky...

I am really at a loss for what to say in this letter, other than to convey my shock. For openers, Mr. Ricky Almonte is not as stentorian or patronizing as you might think. He's more so. What I mean to say is that other stinking, intransigent extremists are also consumed with a desire to muster enough force to terrorize our youngsters. That conclusion is not based on some sort of mumpish, antisocial philosophy or on Ricky-style mental masturbation, but on widely known and proven principles of science. These principles explain that I suppose it's predictable, though terribly sad, that vengeful dingbats with stronger voices than minds would revert to impulsive behavior. But documents written by Ricky's chums typically include the line, "Censorship could benefit us", in large, 30-point type, as if the size of the font gives weight to the words. In reality, all that that fancy formatting really does is underscore the fact that if we can understand what has caused the current plague of lazy brutes, I believe that we can then bring the communion of knowledge to all of us. Here are a few points to ponder:

1. A stockpile of Ricky Almonte quotes favoring particularism could fill a junkyard.
2. Ricky's stingy exegeses may have serious repercussions, even beyond the issue of narcissism.
3. Ricky's arguments don't even prove his point.

Those points may at first seem unrelated, but when you connect the dots, it becomes clear that when you tell Ricky's loyalists that every time Ricky attempts to use scapegoating as a foil to draw anger away from more accurate targets, I feel a surge of pure, unadulterated hatred flow through my body, they begin to get fidgety, and their eyes begin to wander. They really don't care. They have no interest in hearing that he is a snooty tadpole swimming in an empty-headed pond. Nevertheless, I can state with absolute certainty that if he can't be reasoned out of his prejudices, he must be laughed out of them. If he can't be argued out of his selfishness, he must be shamed out of it.

If you need proof that I by no means claim to know everything about ethically bankrupt pothouse drunks, then just take a look at Ricky. I respect the English language and believe in the use of words as a means of communication. Unimaginative mouthpieces for hostile, blockish phallocentrism like him, however, consider spoken communication as merely a set of noises uttered to excite emotions in piteous clods in order to convince them to concentrate all the wealth of the world into his own hands. He is still going around insisting that going through the motions of working is the same as working. Jeez, I thought I had made it perfectly clear to him that his idea of polyloquent revanchism is no political belief. It is a fierce and burning gospel of hatred and intolerance, of murder and destruction, and the unloosing of a slatternly blood-lust. It is, in every sense, a refractory and pagan religion that incites its worshippers to a naive frenzy and then prompts them to do away with intellectual honesty. We must transform our culture of war and violence into a culture of peace and nonviolence. We must address the legitimate anger, fear, and alienation of people who have been mobilized by Mr. Ricky Almonte because they saw no other options for change. And we must expose Ricky's malversation. Please join me in incorporating these words into our living credo.

[ilovellamas]

Not surprising... this email appeared in my mailbox about 3 hours ago:

Seven buildings on the East Bank campus are in the process of being
evacuated due to a bomb threat. They include: Kohltoff, Smith, Frasier,
Johnston and Morrill Halls as well as Walter Library and the Science
Classroom Building. All classes and meetings in these buildings have
been canceled for the remainder of the day. Students are asked to
return to their residence halls or their off-campus housing. Please do
not congregate in the Mall area.

Day after the shooting... someone makes a bomb threat. Wonderful. People never cease to impress me with their intelligence and respect.

[JohnnyNemesis]

This is relevant to my interests.

[0r4ng3]

Day after the shooting... someone makes a bomb threat. Wonderful. People never cease to impress me with their intelligence and respect.
Well, my school had a bomb threat ON September 11, so I don't get impressed much anymore.

[JohnnyNemesis]

http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/04/17/cho-seung-huis-plays/

Oh. Oh. Oh. Ohhhh. Oh my.

Further proof that there's nothing worse than a bad writer.

[DeAtHsTaR]

Turns out that this guy actually sent a package with a video to NBC in between the first two killings and the next 30.

[wheelchairman]

Wow that was a terrible play.

[Sinister]

"bad play" is an euphemism. And how the hell could nobody notice he was a total fuck-up ?

[wheelchairman]

Because there are shitty play writers and losers everywhere. Only a small percentage of those end up shooting people. A very small percentage.

According to our newspapers, his goodbye note said he did it as a lashing out against rich kids etc. But the first play there seems to be downright patronizing of the lower class stepfather, who is also represented as a former jock.

Anyone else get the feeling he related most to the 13 year old boy? The kid said his mind against an overbearing and unwelcome stepfather, protective of his mother as well. The plays portrayal of a supposedly real situation is completely out of whack.

[JohnnyNemesis]

He was definitely speaking from the kid's perspective in both plays (y'all should check out the other one too...it's just as bad but less disturbing). He's clearly operating from a spot of injustice.

[ilovellamas]

That is one really fucked up play. That guy should have never tried to write. His grammar is horrible, and he doesn't know how to write realistically. And even if all that was well-done, it's still really fucked up and twisted. I wasn't able to picture a 13 year old boy, either... I was picturing a 21 year old asian guy... and it totally seemed to be like the boy was the protagonist even though he shouldn't have been. Ugh.

[T-6005]

I wasn't so disturbed by the plays, but they were truly horribly written.

[Sinister]

I'd say it's not likely to happen that way in our world, but I'd suspect it all made perfect sense to him in the little universe he had created in his mind. The only good thing to come out of the shooting is the sick dude is dead, and I stand by the point made earlier that he should have killed himself. Preferably not with a gun though, think of the janitor's workload.

[Sin Studly]

How long have I been tellin you folks, gooks are messed in the head.

[0r4ng3]

When did this suddenly become an Asian thing? Last time I remember, every other school shooting in recent history was done by suburban white kids.

[Sinister]

When did this suddenly become an Asian thing? Last time I remember, every other school shooting in recent history was done by suburban white kids.
Take two recent school shootings.

Dawson College : Asian freak.
Virginia Tech : Asian freak.

Beginning to see some kind of pattern there ?

[JohnnyNemesis]

Unless you were joking, you're an idiot.

[sKratch]

Unless you are currently nude, you're an idiot.

[Sin Studly]

When did this suddenly become an Asian thing? Last time I remember, every other school shooting in recent history was done by suburban white kids.

Stfu and disarm, gooker.

[Linda]

I would bet that kid suffered some kind of abuse sometime in his life perhaps
caused by family, teachers, other kids..... It appears he had some very deep routed anger.

[JohnnyNemesis]

Unless you are currently nude, you're an idiot.

What does that make me if I'm only partially nude (penis gettin' some air, thank god for zippers) because I'm in a public space (library)?

Aside from creepy, I mean.

[Lodat225]

The worst part about this shooting is that the media won't stop with the Bullshitt.

Here's what happened.

An Asian student (Cho) went apeshit and killed a bunch of people.

Why did he go crazy? It doesn't matter. Some people just go crazy.

Gun control? If the campus wasn't a gun free environment then maybe some teachers could have had guns and shot the son of a bitch before he killed more people. lolz, self defense.

How did he get the guns? Like everyone else. He went through the process and had his criminal records looked at and the Police gave him the big O.K.

The worst part is that the media won't leave it alone. They keep asking why. Why ask "why?" when people can be focusing on grieving and coming up with solutions on how to prevent situations like this from occurring again.

I myself don't care what the guy went through. I don't want to listen to some reporter telling me about his autobiography. What happened happened. That's it. Some guy went apeshit and killed 32 people including himself.

[sKratch]

It means you're a tease.

[Lodat225]

me? oh my.

[Venom Symbiote]

I would bet that kid suffered some kind of abuse sometime in his life perhaps
caused by family, teachers, other kids..... It appears he had some very deep routed anger.


I don't want to be agreeing with Lodat here, but who gives a shit what problems the kid had? If he was abused? If he was angry at the world?

There's no fucking justification for that.

A lot of people are angry or cynical about the world. They don't kill people. Abuse by family or teachers or peers? Fucking fuck you. Doesn't matter.

The kid could have been bullied every single day of his life, and it wouldn't matter. He's still scum.

Anyway, does anyone know if he's getting a funeral? That would piss me off.

The rumour his parents committed suicide is false, which I guess is a good thing. But still, this kid's remains should be fed to the wolves or some shit.

[Sin Studly]

Yeah, that'll show him. In fact, we should haul his carcass to the Vatican so the Pope can go another Cadaver Synod on him and sentence him to dismemberment.

Fuckwit.

[JohnnyNemesis]

I don't want to be agreeing with Lodat here, but who gives a shit what problems the kid had? If he was abused? If he was angry at the world?

There's no fucking justification for that.

A lot of people are angry or cynical about the world. They don't kill people. Abuse by family or teachers or peers? Fucking fuck you. Doesn't matter.

The kid could have been bullied every single day of his life, and it wouldn't matter. He's still scum.

Anyway, does anyone know if he's getting a funeral? That would piss me off.

The rumour his parents committed suicide is false, which I guess is a good thing. But still, this kid's remains should be fed to the wolves or some shit.

First off, Linda didn't justify it at all, she just offered her two cents on the whole thing. We already understand how much this disgusts you, and you're free to repeat it constantly as you seem to be doing, but that doesn't mean we can't also talk about something else the way she has.

Secondly and finally, he's probably getting a funeral, and he rightly should because funerals aren't for dead people, they're for the dead people's families. The discourse around funerals is that we're honoring the dead, but that's only about 40% true. The truth is that it's part of the grieving process for their family. It doesn't matter that the dude was a scumbag; that's only gonna make his family's grieving that much worse and more necessary.

[ilovellamas]

Secondly and finally, he's probably getting a funeral, and he rightly should because funerals aren't for dead people, they're for the dead people's families. The discourse around funerals is that we're honoring the dead, but that's about 60% true. The truth is that it's part of the grieving process for their family. It doesn't matter that the dude was a scumbag; that's only gonna make his family's grieving that much worse and more necessary.

It's true. A funeral is never a way of saying, "This guy was a great guy and we all think he was the best. It's a real shame he died." It's a way of saying, "Here's your time to have sort of closure, everyone."

Anyway, who cares? A huge portion of the point of trying to figure out *why* is to better prevent it in the future. If we never looked into the *whys* of killers and murderers, then we wouldn't know jack shit about how to prevent it or what kinds of people do it, would we?

[PilZ-E]

Gun control? If the campus wasn't a gun free environment then maybe some teachers could have had guns and shot the son of a bitch before he killed more people. lolz, self defense.



And when one of the teachers go insane? I hope your being factitious, but then again you are lodat.

[Lodat225]

And when one of the teachers go insane? I hope your being factitious, but then again you are lodat.

I was joking around. Some comical relief. Woo, go me.

[DeAtHsTaR]

Stupid Liberal Vaginas always trying to analyze the shooter's life...

[DeAtHsTaR]

http://a828.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/8/l_946a7c73fd93a13c3d5694cc7c25e423.jpg
My friend Cliff, the day before the shooting. This can only mean that all Asian are serial killers.

[Paint_It_Black]

When did this suddenly become an Asian thing? Last time I remember, every other school shooting in recent history was done by suburban white kids.

It's just further evidence of the Asians taking over. Next you'll be wanting to hold the black man down.

[Manic Subsidal Boy]

The dead deserved to die.

[Vera]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/?GT1=9246

About the package he sent to NBC News...

NBC News President Steve Capus said the network received the package in Tuesday afternoon’s mail delivery, but it was not opened until Wednesday morning. The network immediately turned the materials over to FBI agents in New York.

The package included an 1,800-word manifesto-like statement diatribe in which he expresses rage, resentment and a desire to get even. The material is “hard-to-follow ... disturbing, very disturbing,” Capus said in an interview late Wednesday afternoon.

The material does not include any images of the shootings Monday, but it does contain vague references. And it mentions “martyrs like Eric and Dylan” — apparently a reference to Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the teenagers who killed 12 students and a teacher at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., four years ago this coming Friday.

The material is deeply angry, crying out against unspecified wrongs done to him in a diatribe laced with profanity.

“I didn’t have to do this. I could have left. I could have fled. But no, I will no longer run. It’s not for me. For my children, for my brothers and sisters that you f---, I did it for them,” Cho says on one of the videos.

“When the time came, I did it. I had to.”

So now the connection to Columbine isn't just media-made anymore, I guess.

The extensive material sent to NBC News this week by Cho Seung-Hui includes an angry diatribe against the rich and numerous unspecified enemies. Among the statements:

-Do you know what it feels to be spit on your face and to have trash shoved down your throat? Do you know what it feels like to dig your own grave?

-Do you know what it feels like to have throat slashed from ear to ear? Do you know what it feels like to be torched alive?

-Do you know what it feels like to be humiliated and be impaled upon on a cross? And left to bleed to death for your amusement? You have never felt a single ounce of pain your whole life.

-Did you want to inject as much misery in our lives as you can just because you can?

-You had everything you wanted. Your Mercedes wasn’t enough, you brats. Your golden necklaces weren’t enough, you snobs. Your trust fund wasn’t enough. Your vodka and Cognac weren’t enough. All your debaucheries weren’t enough. Those weren’t enough to fulfill your hedonistic needs. You had everything.


Dude, you could've just stopped watching Laguna Beach...

This one conservative dude on another board I go to is linking me to NRA website, arguing that "if people had guns, this wouldn't happen" (aka the armed students could stop another armed student from shooting up the place). I'm sooo tempted to just dive head-first into this argument because WTF, that logic just ain't right.

And wow, that play *is* really badly written. I mean, the guy's English 2nd language, but still.

I like the bit where the mother takes her shoes off to slap the step-dad with them. It's something you see done in a lot of Korean, as well as Indian, movies.

And the pedophilia/violence angle isn't even all that disturbing because it was all so WTF-y and badly written. However, there's an odd contrast in that if this guy hates rich people, his alter-ego (the 13 yr old) trashes the step-dad for being a loser who didn't achieve anything in his life and is white trash and fat etc.

The second play is almost funny. "He ass-raped you." "He ass-rapes like half the kids in the class. Isn't that what high school teachers do?" 0_0 Okay!

[khaaaaan]

Cho Seung was pretty hardcore
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p93/phijen/Cho_Seung-Hui__248198f.jpg

He's all like "B00M HEADSHOT!"
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p93/phijen/Cho_Seung-Hui__248196f.jpg

[Sin Studly]

School shootings would be awesomer if everyone had guns. Just think about it, the crybaby killer starts shooting, so some faggy hero pulls his piece and charges into the corridor, looks around quickly and spots some other faggy hero rushing out of his dorm with a gun drawn. "Ah-hah!" he exclaims. "The crazy bastard!"

So he guns down the other faggy hero, just as a third faggy hero turns the corner to see him shooting into the body of another student. "Ah-hah" the third faggy hero exclaims. "The crazy bastard!"

[Jakebert]

School shootings would be awesomer if everyone had guns. Just think about it, the crybaby killer starts shooting, so some faggy hero pulls his piece and charges into the corridor, looks around quickly and spots some other faggy hero rushing out of his dorm with a gun drawn. "Ah-hah!" he exclaims. "The crazy bastard!"

So he guns down the other faggy hero, just as a third faggy hero turns the corner to see him shooting into the body of another student. "Ah-hah" the third faggy hero exclaims. "The crazy bastard!"

This gives me an idea for a movie...

[JoY]

The point they are trying to make, I think, is that it sounds like the whole thing took some time to happen. Maybe enough time that it's strange that the guy didn't get stopped faster. It's not so much just dissecting how to kill 32 people in as little time as possible.

yeah, after I read everything, I put it into context & figured so much. my apologies. I'd read everything, but wasn't around for a couple of days, so when I read the rest of the topic, I read it seperately from the rest.

[JoY]

Don't use that bullshit on me. This isn't about "oh, cool the guy had skillz! lololz", fuck you, don't put that on me.

Like Skratch said, we're trying to figure out how the hell he got 32 people with those sorts of guns, in that situation. It doesn't make much sense to me, personally.

All I'm saying is that it probably shouldn't have been this bad. It didn't need to be that many people. As psycho as this fucker was, the police/campus security and even students could have mounted an effort to stop him.

One little skinny asian kid with two pistols (they weren't automatic rapid-fire things like someone suggested) shouldn't be able to kill 32 innocent people without being taken down.

Obviously he did it, so I know what you're saying, it doesn't really matter anymore, it only matters about fixing it as best we can, helping the victim's families and all. Sure. But that's not really what we're talking about at all here.

A 2 hour gap between shootings? And the fact he did all this with two little "bang bang" simple handguns? It's discussion-worthy. So please stop being a bitch.

holy damn, GEEZ, hadn't sKratch already explained it to me in a decent fashion? which part of your tiny dick did I step on to get such an aggressive reaction? you'd seen sKratch's post before making this one, I don't see why it was even necessary to add anything to what he said, let alone swearing your butt of at me. do you always explain stuff this way, by being a total ass, because it's rather counter productive.

fine, it's fine that you agreed with him, because he's definitely right in this situation. (ain't he always? ;p) but what on earth made you think you have the right to bitch at me like this, for not immediately seeing it in full context?

[wheelchairman]

Stupid Liberal Vaginas always trying to analyze the shooter's life...

Stupid little moron, thinks that violence happens inexplicably, and at random.

What a shitty little reality you must live in.

[JohnnyNemesis]

which part of your tiny dick did I step on to get such an aggressive reaction?

HAJGJSDH DFH I LOVE YOU BELLA!

Also, I think this question should be asked in response to 90% of his posts.

[Jakebert]

Sometime between yesterday and this morning, someone wrote "33 dead in Virginia, but I can do better" on a wall in one of the boy's bathrooms at my school.

I swear, teenagers are fucking dumb.

[ilovellamas]

Sometime between yesterday and this morning, someone wrote "33 dead in Virginia, but I can do better" on a wall in one of the boy's bathrooms at my school.

I swear, teenagers are fucking dumb.

Holy shit. I hate people.

[Ryder1234]

woah i live in canada and it was still on tv as long as 9/11 was. it was messed up. but now i wanna go to virginia and get guns, because guns are cool. of course i wouldnt get any magazines (the case that holds the bullets for all u retards) for it because im not out to kill any1. yeah but thats still pretty sad

[Linda]

I swear, teenagers are fucking dumb.

Yes, they are. From the looks of it, I was right. He was bullied by high school classmates....most likely was bullied in VA Tech also. Being bullied is a type of abuse. Hey, a person can only take so much before they snap. Some snap quicker than others. I not only feel sorry for the victims, but I also feel sorry for Cho. All people...*looks around* should just stop the bullying and just leave people alone they don't like.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/

[sKratch]

woah i live in canada and it was still on tv as long as 9/11 was. it was messed up. but now i wanna go to virginia and get guns, because guns are cool. of course i wouldnt get any magazines (the case that holds the bullets for all u retards) for it because im not out to kill any1. yeah but thats still pretty sad

I'm just making sure everyone sees that this post does indeed exist, which is very unfortunate.

[Sinister]

It almost makes me want to change my user title.

[Paint_It_Black]

Yes, they are. From the looks of it, I was right. He was bullied by high school classmates....most likely was bullied in VA Tech also. Being bullied is a type of abuse. Hey, a person can only take so much before they snap. Some snap quicker than others. I not only feel sorry for the victims, but I also feel sorry for Cho. All people...*looks around* should just stop the bullying and just leave people alone they don't like.

Linda, bullying can also really build character, to a certain extent. Especially amongst children, as it helps prepare them for the sometimes harsh realities of grown-up life. Of course there is still a point when it does go from being standard bullying to being abuse, but not all bullying is abuse. That kind of belief is a sign of the sugar-coated-bubble-wrapped society we live in now.

I was bullied and it made me tough. I'm thankful for the experience.

Most people who are bullied don't go all psychopathic. It's no excuse, not even a little, and Cho deserves no sympathy. He was scum.

[ilovellamas]

I was bullied like crazy. Like, getting gum put in my hair bullied. I never once wished death to anyone. I really disliked those people who did that. I think it made me more accepting of others and a really nice person. I'm not condoning bullying, but I don't think it's even remotely an excuse.

[Venom Symbiote]

Yes, they are. From the looks of it, I was right. He was bullied by high school classmates....most likely was bullied in VA Tech also. Being bullied is a type of abuse. Hey, a person can only take so much before they snap. Some snap quicker than others. I not only feel sorry for the victims, but I also feel sorry for Cho. All people...*looks around* should just stop the bullying and just leave people alone they don't like.

This is the type of sympathy that people who do this kind of shit look for. "Oh, well he killed a bunch of people, but he MUST have been pretty messed up from what other people did to him in the first place".

Isn't...ignoring his "reasons" and rather focusing on how to prevent idiots like this from being able to do it again the better course of action?

Like...he WANTED people to look deep into his writings and twisted hate of "rich kids" and "debauchery". Fuck him, they weren't exactly the motives of a sane rational mind. Doesn't matter if he was bullied or not.

[Linda]

You're entitled to your opinion, PIB, but I know what it's like to be bullied too.
I was very quiet well into my early 30's. I was bullied in school, at work, even here on-line throughout my whole life. I never snapped, I think because of my upbringing. From what I have read, his family was very poor. Perhaps there was something that could have been done to help him in his early years, but apparently his family couldn't afford it or just didn't think there was a problem. In some kids, perhaps it does build character, but not in all kids, and certainly not constant bullying. All kids don't know how to deal with constant bullying. I read that kids laughed at him when he finally talked in the classroom because of the way he talked and was told to go back to China. That can be very hurtful to a kid, even a teenager. People can't help the way they sound when they talk, so why laugh at them when they do talk? Kids can be very cruel. I believe on the videos he was talking to all the people who had bullied him. Have you ever had a whole classroom laugh at you and make fun of you? I mean really laugh AT you, not WITH you. I'm not saying what he did was right. I'm just saying I can understand to some extent how he must have been feeling and I still feel sympathy for him as well as the victims. I'm sorry, but I have to stick to my opinion that he was pushed into what he did because of abuse. I can't call him scum. I can only call him troubled.

[ilovellamas]

Linda, I was bullied just as much as that kid. And even worse, my mom made fun of me, too. When I did something wrong, she'd say, "that's why nobody at school likes you and makes fun of you". It was like she was agreeing with them. When I talked in class, I got made fun of, as well. I had entire classes laugh at me and not with me many, many times. Even when I didn't talk. I never got any help, and I pretty much hated my life. I didn't know how to deal with it. But that didn't mean it was okay for me to want to kill people. I feel no sympathy for him.

[Linda]

This is the type of sympathy that people who do this kind of shit look for. "Oh, well he killed a bunch of people, but he MUST have been pretty messed up from what other people did to him in the first place".

Isn't...ignoring his "reasons" and rather focusing on how to prevent idiots like this from being able to do it again the better course of action?

Like...he WANTED people to look deep into his writings and twisted hate of "rich kids" and "debauchery". Fuck him, they weren't exactly the motives of a sane rational mind. Doesn't matter if he was bullied or not.

Like my sympathy is doing him any good.

Reasons can't be ignored when trying to find ways to prevent other people from doing the same thing.

Like I said, I believe his writings were directed at the people who bullied him.
Do you know for a fact that the bully's weren't rich kids? A lot of the rich kids do make fun of the poor kids. Kids can be relentless.

The mind is a funny thing. A totally sane rational person could suddenly turn irrational in a split second. You just never know.

[wheelchairman]

Everyone goes through bullying at some point in their life. Most people can pull themselves above it. Those who can't learn to accept their place, and then their antagonists usually get bored. It's only losers who can't rise above the bullying, but who have to get even through violent means. I agree very much that the ostracizing factor of American high schools is terrible. And can turn losers into desperate people. And something clearly needs to be done about this. However when people snap, the only person to blame is them.

[Linda]

Linda, I was bullied just as much as that kid. And even worse, my mom made fun of me, too. When I did something wrong, she'd say, "that's why nobody at school likes you and makes fun of you". It was like she was agreeing with them. When I talked in class, I got made fun of, as well. I had entire classes laugh at me and not with me many, many times. Even when I didn't talk. I never got any help, and I pretty much hated my life. I didn't know how to deal with it. But that didn't mean it was okay for me to want to kill people. I feel no sympathy for him.

Like I said, some kids can deal, some can't. Some kids are strong, some aren't. You are a strong one, he wasn't. I NEVER said it was OK for him to do it, I just said I feel sorry for him.

[mrconeman]

I can feel sympathy for the guy in that he was driven to where he felt the need to seek this kind of thing. Thats just sad for anyone to be treated like that.
But not by any means does having a shitty life justify what he did, fuck that.

[ilovellamas]

I guess I feel sympathy for him, but I feel considerably less sympathy for him than I do for someone who is bullied just as much and doesn't kill people. The sympathy for this guy is so minor that it barely deserves mention.

[neocon58]

Linda, I was bullied just as much as that kid. And even worse, my mom made fun of me, too. When I did something wrong, she'd say, "that's why nobody at school likes you and makes fun of you". It was like she was agreeing with them. When I talked in class, I got made fun of, as well. I had entire classes laugh at me and not with me many, many times. Even when I didn't talk. I never got any help, and I pretty much hated my life. I didn't know how to deal with it. But that didn't mean it was okay for me to want to kill people. I feel no sympathy for him.

Can I just say your mum is a fucking bitch for being like that, IMO. When the one last person you expect to turn to and get help from fucks you over...I can only imagine how hard that would've been.

Yes, regarding retarded teenagers and making fun of the incident. My mate received an SMS from a mate of his last night. I'll let you try and figure out the fucked up answer cause I'd rather not say it.

What do Mt Everest and Virginia Tech have in common?

[wheelchairman]

Brianna's mom my not be the best. But for a person who was teased most of her life. Brianna found popularity on this board rather quickly, so she obviously outgrew it.

I can remember going to summer camp. At the age of 10 was the first time, and I was pretty much teased relentlessly by everyone. It was a rather bad experience. But I went back next year anyways. This time was different, not only had I developed a sense of humor. But I was also taller than many others, so I could use my size to indimidate them.

As for being made fun of for having an accent. I can relate a bit. The first 4 years living here in Denmark I wasn't comfortable speaking, now I've accepted my accent and it does not bother me anymore. This Cho guy lived in the states for 15 years. It's amazing he still had an accent...

[JohnnyNemesis]

Isn't...ignoring his "reasons" and rather focusing on how to prevent idiots like this from being able to do it again the better course of action?

It's impossible to prevent idiots like that from doing shit again if you ignore his "reasons". It's not his "reasons" that people are analyzing, it's where the shit comes from. How the hell do you prevent this shit without understanding how it happened in the first place?

If you go all "zomg oops, lololo my bad i wuz studying him but he 2 crzy!!!", how the hell do you stop this shit?

[RickyCrack]

If somebody says, "You have a hundred billion ways to stop today from happening." and then they shoot down 32 ppl (new record to beat) people are going to try and figure out what causes this to happen.

Personally I think it's because his g/f broke up with him and he seems like the kind of guy where if a girl is nice to him then he assumes they want to fuck him and shit, which is probably a product of his culture. So therefore he stalks girls because he thinks they like him, and when they reject him he gets upset. Or maybe I'm just too Freudian.

[Linda]

From what I read, it didn't sound like it had anything to do with a girlfriend like they said right after it happened. I believe the girls he was supposedly stalking were 2 of the people who made fun of him.

[RickyCrack]

From what I heard, his girlfriend broke up with him the morning of the shooting. But I'm not sure I believe this as it seems pretty far-fetched and the shooting was obviously planned because he bought the guns two weeks before monday, but that could mean that he knew something bad was going to happen. I'm not sure about this though. The stalking cases were in 2005 and that's liek 2 years ago, but it just shows his own want to feel needed by a woman.

[Paint_It_Black]

In some kids, perhaps it does build character, but not in all kids, and certainly not constant bullying. All kids don't know how to deal with constant bullying.

Well yeah, I did say that extreme cases of bullying can be called abuse. It depends on the specifics of the case.

I was bullied in school, at work, even here on-line throughout my whole life. I never snapped, I think because of my upbringing.

Or maybe just because you're not a psychopath.

I'm sorry, but I have to stick to my opinion that he was pushed into what he did because of abuse.

Maybe so. But I think it takes a special kind of person to snap like he did. Abuse may have been the catalyst, but I think there was probably always something wrong with him. Do you get what I'm saying?

Have you ever had a whole classroom laugh at you and make fun of you? I mean really laugh AT you, not WITH you.

Yeah, I have. Ok, I guess I can give a little PiB history here. I was bullied as soon as I started school. Physically and verbally by the other boys. So I adapted. I learned how to fight, physically and verbally. I became a tough kid.

I even crossed the line from time to time and became a bit of a bully myself. I intimidated other kids physically, and I was good at the verbal abuse. I established dominance.

Then I went to high school. I was used to being a big fish in a small pond, and the new situation was a bit hard to get used to. I was getting in fights almost every day. Before long a certain hierarchy was established, and although I was no longer the toughest kid in school I was comfortably near the top. Enough so that real problems were rare.

Then I realized that most of my friends were scared of me. I began to care that I may be more feared than respected. So I tried to be less intimidating. Before long guys who would never have dared look me in the eye before were making fun of me. So one day I threw one across a table and beat the shit out of him. After that I pretty much learned to find a compromise. Not be intimidating to my friends, but scare everyone else enough to leave me the fuck alone.

What's the point of all this? Well, I am certain now that this is a natural way amongst boys. There's a pack mentality, and once all members of the pack accept their place in it there aren't too many problems, within that pack anyway.

But girls. Oh, girls are different. In highschool one girl seemed to hate me. I later realized she may have originally had a crush on me and I hurt her feelings by ignoring her (I was shy and terrified of girls). Anyway, she made fun of me constantly in classes and outside. She got a few of her friends to join in, and most other kids thought it was funny. For me it was hell, because I didn't know how to handle it. I couldn't think of a witty comeback against a girl, and I certainly couldn't hit one. It was a real low point for me. I was completely miserable. But it never crossed my mind to fucking shoot the bitch, or 30 random students, you know?

I'm just saying I can understand to some extent how he must have been feeling and I still feel sympathy for him as well as the victims.

I can understand some of his feelings too. And I feel sorry for anyone who goes through really bad bullying. Right up until they start shooting. Then I lose all sympathy. One moment he was troubled, and the next he was fucking scum. To feel any sympathy for him now is an insult to the victims.

Linda, I mean no offense by that last part. I know you aren't intending to insult anyone, but for me that's the truth of it.

[Venom Symbiote]

Ok, I get what you're all saying, but isn't the "bullying" thing just an excuse, and aren't we biting the bait?

A lot of you have brought up the point that so many other kids are bullied, and don't flip out like this. I agree. I mean, reacting this way doesn't make you "troubled and abused", it makes you weak. Weak and vengeful, and basically a bad person. So much exponentially worse than the bullies and whoever "wronged" you in the first place.

As for the economic thing, yeah I can somewhat understand how that would be frustrating. But hell, he was in college, a good one at that, he couldn't have been doing too badly.

It just seems that people like this know how society will react to it, and in a way people give them what they want. Of course the social problems need to be addressed, but I don't think you can say those same problems that drove him in his twisted mind to "resort to this" are what caused it. It was his situation coupled with the fact that he was batshit fucking loco.

I guess it's just frustrating how the media always portrays these kids as "troubled" to such an extent that they're minimising and even omitting the fact that there's a good percentage of his motive that was pure evil. Yeah, he was fucked up. Sure. But he was also a horrible, horrible, weak, violent and twisted "bad" person.

It wasn't just psychosis or desperation. People seem to overlook the contribution of his own choice and decision in the matter.

[RickyCrack]

If it was a product of pure evil, then why is the most repeated phrase on his video, "This didn't have to happen." and "There were a hundred billion ways to stop today from happening"?

[Paint_It_Black]

Yeah, and Hitler probably would have said the same about the Holocaust. You're really using that as an argument?

There, I just compared him to Hitler, so now we know he's evil.

[sKratch]

It's impossible to prevent idiots like that from doing shit again if you ignore his "reasons". It's not his "reasons" that people are analyzing, it's where the shit comes from. How the hell do you prevent this shit without understanding how it happened in the first place?

If you go all "zomg oops, lololo my bad i wuz studying him but he 2 crzy!!!", how the hell do you stop this shit?

Come on, do you honestly think this sort of shit is preventable?

[XYlophonetreeZ]

Come on, do you honestly think this sort of shit is preventable?
Is having a horrific mass shooting of this caliber (or close to it anyway) from time to time preventable? No. But in general, things like this have been prevented. People have dedicated their lives and careers to preventing this sort of thing, but the cases in which some messed up kid gets counseling and is straightened out, or even cases when some messed up kid is properly restrained due to his mental state, just don't make international headlines. Who knows where we'd be without the people who actually think this sort of shit is preventable?

Of course, this was obviously an extreme incident, nothing like it in years. Maybe this WAS just one of those times that inevitably slips through. The point as I look at it isn't for everybody to panic about prevention as the result of this one shooting, but to maintain awareness of this shit in general.

[coke_a_holic]

I approve of the psychological analysis of Cho; it seems like he had some sort of antisocial disorder along with severe depression. Like, he'd been bullied as a kid, but never got over it and always harbored those intense emotions. The antisocial disorder would explain his ability to murder people without any convictions.

The only issue with this theory, though, is that antisocial people generally have the capacity to be functioning members of society (charm, wit, etc), whereas he seemed to lack these. His desire to be recognized could play into the severe depression, but he could've had a histrionic disorder, as well, causing him to basically freak out without the attention he craved.

[Vera]

I'm mildly impressed with the press actually figuri