To the guys here.

[_Lost_]

So its 3am, and I can't sleep. I don't need any "no more hope for better days" replies. You see, there is this guy. And I don't know why, but I can't get my mind off of him. I've known him since May and I've basically had a thing for him since I met him. Sometimes, he acts like he feels the same way I do and theres so much chemistry its not even funny. We've had one real date. We were supposed to hang out saturday but he cancelled on me. So my response was to go get unbelievably trashed saturday night at a party my friends invited me to. This is so unlike me. I've never done anything like that before. And I think the only reason I manage to get any sleep last night was because of that. So thats gotta tell you something about how I feel about this guy. And I can't do anything about it at this point. I've tried moving on and so far no luck, because just when I start to, he turns back up and I'm back to square 1.

I was talking to my friend earlier and he put it this way. He said that, like when 3rd grade boys pick on a girl and treat them like that a lot it means they like them, and that when guys get older, they do basically the same thing except in a more subtle, sophisticated way.

I want to believe that thats true, but I can't and its keeping me up. Guys on here, is there any truth in this? Honestly, I need unbiased opinions on this, because I really need to be able to sleep sometime this week.

[Endymion]

generally no, guys won't play stupid games. that doesn't mean we're all caring and don't do stupid shit all the time, though.

he cancelled on hanging out -- that doesn't mean he doesn't have any interest in you. priorities are weird like that sometimes. you can always ask him how he feels. though i guess at ~18 guys aren't exactly mature.

[_Lost_]

~18 guys aren't exactly mature.

he's 22 actually. i don't know how much of a difference that makes.

but that is reassuring in a way endy. I probably will end up asking him. Even if he says he's not really interested, it can't be more awkward than some other conversations we've had to tell the truth.

[wheelchairman]

Yes some guys do. This however doesn't give you any obvious way of interpreting your situation.

[Endymion]

he's 22 actually. i don't know how much of a difference that makes.

huge difference, generally.

[_Lost_]

huge difference, generally.

any chance you'd care to elaborate a little?

[Endymion]

i know i matured quite a bit between the ages of 18 and 22, as did most everyone i know. at 18 you're just out of high school: most haven't had to support themselves at this point, or had a job. by 22 that's changed. plus puberty is generally over by 22, whereas it's still tapering off at 18.

[_Lost_]

Okay. I've gotcha there.

Alas, it is quickly approaching 4. Sleep is not happening tonight i'm pretty sure.

[wheelchairman]

If you weren't 18 I'd say a screwdriver before putting your head down is what you need.

[XYlophonetreeZ]

I'd say you don't know any more now than you did before he canceled. Did he give a reason for canceling? Have you talked to him since then? How often do you talk to him? He could have a lot of different reasons.

[RickyCrack]

i'll be serious with you for a moment. i'm kind of going through the same thing. i'm basically in love with a girl i met a year and a half ago, actually have been the whole time. however we met at a bad time because she left to florida for a year for the disney internship program. but she's been back now for a few months and it's been amazing. only problem is that she lives an hour and a half away from me, and we see each other as much as possible.

background story out of the way here's the advice i have for you. yes, this chick is awesome and we talk almost every night on the phone, basically you have to realize that after highschool shit gets tougher. plans get canceled. we'll promise to call each other but sometimes it doesn't happen because unforseen problems arise, or we'll be hanging out with our friends and shiznizzle, and also when we have plans to see each other sometimes it doesn't work out because of the same reasons. once you enter real life it's not as easy as it was in high school so you have to make it work otherwise if you sweat the small shit, things will get out of control.

basically i'm saying shit happens sometimes, and if you both like each other, it'll work out, you just can't get all worked up about shit that doesn't happen your way.

[_Lost_]

thanks RC, that actually makes me feel a lot better to see it put that way.

EDIT: Its now 6:25 and I have class in an hour. I think my pillow will be suffering from withdrawal...

[Rag Doll]

I'm not a guy, but...

If any guy pulls that bullshit your friend talked about (the more "sophisticated" version of what 3rd graders do, which is in NO way sophisticated, sry2say), he's pretty pathetic and immature. I will never understand why some girls are willing to believe that "boys will be boys" thing and go along with what they think are games, when in actuality the guy is generally an immature douche.

That said, no idea if that's what this guy is doing, obviously. Also don't know if this is the same guy you've talked about in the past.

[_Lost_]

Ok, I'm not gonna lie, it IS the same guy Rag Doll (your name is Pam?). BUT I didn't see nor talk to him for two months. During this time him and his ex split peacefully(honestly, i think their relationship had been burning out for some time) and I heard from him again sometime in October. so....

[Static_Martyr]

My honest advice --- and I'm seriously not trying to be a smart-ass here --- would be to ask him. Sure, it's awkward, but if you're really interested in him, then you should be ready to have far more intimate conversations than that in the future; And it's not like you have to "confess your love for him" or anything; just be like, "Hey, I like you a lot, and I want to know if you feel the same way."

Also, I'd try to come off non-confrontational; when I said that to the girl I was dating a month or so ago, what I said (pretty much verbatim) was, "Look, I really like you. A lot. If you don't feel the same way then that's cool, but I wanted to get that out there one way or the other because not knowing is the cause of a lot of tension for me, whenever we're hanging out."

Although that ended up not working out, so perhaps you should try a different approach? 0_0

[JohnnyNemesis]

I will never understand why some girls are willing to believe that "boys will be boys" thing and go along with what they think are games, when in actuality the guy is generally an immature douche.

I'm with you 100%. It's infuriating. I think that generally (and this might include you, _Lost_, though it's really hard for any of us to say anything without knowing the dude), you have to be self-aware too. If you catch yourself making weak excuses for the dude's behavior because you're infatuated with him, you better try to regain control of yourself 'cause it can only get ugly (meaning you're only gonna get hurt).

Life lesson: if love is hurting you in a real way, then love just aint worth it, plain and simple. Gotta move the fuck on if all that's happening is constant emotional pain.

Extreme example: I have a friend who's boyfriend cheated on her, dumped her 'cause she was mad about it.. and this friend flips out on ME for saying it's time to move on. She says "If you love someone you give them chances!".

Bleh. With a motto like that, I hope she's ready for her future of spousal abuse :(

ps. I know everyone's saying to just ask him, but I think it's easy for the person trying to give advice to just say that. If you do just straight up ask him, it might affect his response; some people freeze when it comes to confrontation.

I'm speaking from experience on that one, though. This girl I was totally into once approached me 'cause she was into me too, and I found her bluntness (which I love, generally) kind of jarring and it took me a little it of time to just be like "LOL I LIKE U TOO!" What I'm saying is to go ahead and ask him, but if he seems a bit off or surprised or kinda clams up, don't think it's all over...he might be totally into you, but just as shy as you when actually confronted with the situation. Or maybe he likes you and what he wants from you isn't what you want from him, etc. It's always complex...siiiiiiiiiigh.

[_Lost_]

Although that ended up not working out, so perhaps you should try a different approach? 0_0

So everyone is under that general consensus that I need to ask him? I can do that.

haha! well either way, I probably ought to try to get some sleep before trying to approach the subject. I've been awake for a very long time, but my roommate is being noisy as hell...

EDIT: Extreme example: I have a friend who's boyfriend cheated on her, dumped her 'cause she was mad about it.. and this friend flips out on ME for saying it's time to move on. She says "If you love someone you give them chances!".
If we were from the same part of the country, I'd ask if we knew the same person, because thats exactly what I've been hearing from a friend of mine.

And I'm not trying to make excuses for him. I'm just trying to understand.

[JohnnyNemesis]

If we were from the same part of the country, I'd ask if we knew the same person, because thats exactly what I've been hearing from a friend of mine.

Ha! Do me a favor and tell your friend that he/she watches too many fucking movies.

And I'm not trying to make excuses for him. I'm just trying to understand.

Oh, I know...just saying to be careful!

[_Lost_]

Ha! Do me a favor and tell your friend that he/she watches too many fucking movies.

Haha! she amazes me sometimes... I was talking to her last night, and she was talking about some 33 year-old-guy she's been screwing and now she is hoping it might actually turn into something because she lurrves him soooo much (yet 10 mins before she was complaining about how much she still loves this guy who is like 15 who lied about his age but she wants to forgive him even though thats totally against the law and she could get jail time if she's not careful.) and this 33 year old guy has been a major jackass to her and she wants to forgive him...blah blah blah (what do you expect? he was in highschool when she was born!). FRUSTRATING! And she fails to see how unbelievably unpleasant and "eww" it is that he's 33...

And I am trying to be careful. This is why I posted this thread. I'm incredibly paranoid of being hurt.

[Thomas]

You could always use my method if you decide to tell him. Don't just walk up to him and be like "LoL! I, lyk, lyk u!" I prefer the cowards way out and simply writing them a letter explaining everything. It lets you articulate what you want to say a little better, and it gives them time to soak it in without the initial shock, ya know?

Just my two cents...

[_Lost_]

You could always use my method if you decide to tell him. Don't just walk up to him and be like "LoL! I, lyk, lyk u!" I prefer the cowards way out and simply writing them a letter explaining everything. It lets you articulate what you want to say a little better, and it gives them time to soak it in without the initial shock, ya know?

Just my two cents...

hmm... maybe you are on to something here. I will think on it.

PS I've reached the point of "so tired that everything is funny", but i read you loud and clear and i like this idea. I really will think on it.

[jacknife737]

If any guy pulls that bullshit your friend talked about (the more "sophisticated" version of what 3rd graders do, which is in NO way sophisticated, sry2say), he's pretty pathetic and immature. I will never understand why some girls are willing to believe that "boys will be boys" thing and go along with what they think are games, when in actuality the guy is generally an immature douche.

This.

He sounds incredibly immature, and to be honest, not worth pursuing. Even if you guys did hook up, it probably wouldn't last. I know (and have some friends) way too many guys like him. But again, i don't really know him, nor the specifics of your situation.

It's probably not what you want to hear, but do what i do when i have relationship trouble, pour yourself a double whiskey and put on your favorite Lawrence Arms* record.

*Substitute for personal preference.

[_Lost_]

It's probably not what you want to hear, but do what i do when i have relationship trouble, pour yourself a double whiskey and put on your favorite Lawrence Arms* record.

*Substitute for personal preference.

Yeah, I don't really care for this methodology of dealing with stuff personally. Though it would've been a much more pleasant night had I taken WCM's advice and gone the screwdriver and hit the hay route. But here I am.

[T-6005]

Fuck his brains out.

That is my honest advice.

[wheelchairman]

Am I missing something? How was he immature and pulling bullshit?

He just cancelled on her once...

what the hell is going on with you people?

Or am I completely missing something?

[Thomas]

Am I missing something? How was he immature and pulling bullshit?

He just cancelled on her once...

what the hell is going on with you people?

Or am I completely missing something?


My thoughts exactly. It's not like he stood her up or anything. He had a conflict, so plans had to be canceled. This sort of thing happens all the time.

[_Lost_]

Am I missing something? How was he immature and pulling bullshit?

He just cancelled on her once...

what the hell is going on with you people?

Or am I completely missing something?
My thoughts exactly. It's not like he stood her up or anything. He had a conflict, so plans had to be canceled. This sort of thing happens all the time.

I was wondering the same thing... I'm glad its not just me here.

[JohnnyNemesis]

I was talking to my friend earlier and he put it this way. He said that, like when 3rd grade boys pick on a girl and treat them like that a lot it means they like them, and that when guys get older, they do basically the same thing except in a more subtle, sophisticated way.

People were going on this, which implied that he was indeed pulling some sort of bullshit.

[_Lost_]

ahh! ok...

well that was just his theory on male behavior in general. I think he had been told very little of what had happened when he said that. I still haven't had any sleep, but I can tell even now, that my first post wasn't very clear.

[Superdope]

I agree with WCM. Why on earth is everybody reacting like they are? He just cancelled on her once, and you all act like he murdered someone!

I'm just going to repeat what has been said a couple of times here. The guy cancelling on you probably has nothing to do with how he feels about you, and he probably didn't even think that you could react the way you did. Guys can be pretty oblivious to this.

[PilZ-E]

I'm in a similar situation with one of my best friends. We flirt all the time etc. and I would say something without hesitation if I wasn't worried about our friendship.

[_Lost_]

I'm just going to repeat what has been said a couple of times here. The guy cancelling on you probably has nothing to do with how he feels about you, and he probably didn't even think that you could react the way you did. Guys can be pretty oblivious to this.

I didn't even think that I could react the way I did... i'm a little freaked out by it for sure.

But thanks you guys. lol. i truly and honestly feel reassured.

[ninthz]

The idea of a relationship is novel to me but never seems to be as ideal once it's actually upon you. I don't like the kind of shit people try to pull when they're infatuated//in relationships. Some people bail on their friends when opportunities pop up with whoever they're into at the time and it's pretty much the opposite of solid.

I'm difficult to date though. The persona I put forth here is pretty dead on with how I am in real life so I'm sure that probably speaks volumes about my personal relationships. Add to that my natural inclination towards confronting anything I perceive as an issue and you're probably met with a seemingly volatile situation. Pro tip: I kind of want to throw down from time to time and whoever I'm with has to adapt to that or we'll be parting ways.

As for your situation: don't look into too much. Crushes generally aren't worth that much thought (regardless of length) and if things are going to happen then cool. Otherwise you're still fine.

ps: I hope you're not the kind of person that's co-dependent.

pps: fagz

[PilZ-E]

pps: Fagz

<3
34567890

[JohnnyNemesis]

I'm difficult to date though.

The persona I put forth here is pretty dead on with how I am in real life

I can personally attest to the latter...and I wish I could attest to the former :eek: ;) :D

[nieh]

If any guy pulls that bullshit your friend talked about (the more "sophisticated" version of what 3rd graders do, which is in NO way sophisticated, sry2say), he's pretty pathetic and immature.

But I did that kind of stuff to you all the time...In fact, I still pick on you to this day and so does your mens and you love it! Although picking on someone as a way of showing affection does not mean playing mind games and jerking them around, that's just fucking stupid. Him canceling his plans is most likely not him going "lolz, prnk on u!". I don't know any guys that pull games like that, but maybe I just hang out with a different crowd.

[Rag Doll]

Yeah, but I don't consider lightly teasing me for my general airheadedness to be the same as what third graders do, but in a "a more subtle, sophisticated way." (you guys are just mean and gang up on me =(...)

I'd say that is more like, "lulzzz let's go out saturday.....ohnoezgotcha!!!" and "i like you a lot....ha ha ha no i don't....ha ha yes i do....no you're yucky..". Like you said, there's a difference. Not saying what this guy is doing is jerking her around, but guys that do play lame ass games like that aren't worth it.

And unfortunately I know a lot of guys that do it =\.

[JohnnyNemesis]

For the record, though, I know lots of women who pull that shit too, or even worse, lots of women who won't even show attraction towards a guy unless he pulls that sophomoric bullshit :(

[Rag Doll]

I think in general a lot of people are really immature when it comes to relationships. =\

[Betty]

Ahhhh... the wonderful world of relationships.

(a) For sure the boys are right on canceling not meaning too much. Guys don't overthink stuff like that, they really don't. It's baffling, and it's one of those things where guys and girls REALLY ARE different.

(b) I don't know if you should ask him. It could go both ways, like Rick said. I'm a huge fan of being blunt, so I've taken the "p.s. I'm in love with you" route before. But actually, one time it was out of necessity because I HAD to tell the guy lest he get wrong impressions. That didn't really work for or against me (i.e. feelings not reciprocated, but friendship completely intact). Other times I'm usually blunt if I get the feeling the other person feels the same way in the first place... otherwise I'm usually a wuss. The thing is, there's also a LOT to be said for the "play hard to get" tactic. Not as in, playing games, but just as in playing it cool, not being too clingy, making yourself more desirable, etc. It's stupid, but it actually is human nature. Actually, no, if the two of you are CLEARLY undeniably into one another (and this should be obvious), then you can be blunt. If it's questionable, then you may need to win them over. Which is fine... I think being won over as opposed to falling in love at first sight is certainly an option for beginning a relationship. But whether you should go the blunt route or not depends on the situation, probably.

(c) The immaturity thing is a tough one. I've been in a few serious relationships and in each of them it got to the point where I knew it had to end for some reason. Whether it was cause the guy was just too much of an asshole, or whether the guy just had too many weird issues or commitment problems, or what have you. But when you're in LOVE, it's hard to tell yourself to not stick with them. And there's always the "should I settle" debate. Cause really, where's the fine line between "loving someone for who they are" and "settling." But THEN I met my soulmate, and he's so perfect and so mature and perhaps I just haven't discovered his downfall yet, but it makes you realize that no, you shouldn't put up with the other guys, cause they're not all like that. But you can only see that in hindsight.

[_Lost_]

hmmm... well, i finally know why he didn't come out on saturday. He started out the conversation by including that he knew that talking about this with me in particular is uncomfortable but he needed to talk about it anyway. On friday, he saw his ex which kind of left him all kinds of messed up. He didn't say explicitly that this was the reason, but I know him too well. I can't really blame him for that. They broke up not that long ago considering they had been together for nearly three years. Then he said he saw her again sunday and they talked and during this conversation, he informed her that he could never be in a relationship with her again because she just wasn't right for him and so that was that. And he hasn't talked to her since. And he said he's just ready to be over her move on.

:(:confused:

[Rag Doll]

Uh, maybe just me, but it sounds like he isn't ready to be in any relationship at all at the moment. And he probably won't be for some time...

[_Lost_]

Uh, maybe just me, but it sounds like he isn't ready to be in any relationship at all at the moment. And he probably won't be for some time...

yeah... I know... Thats causing part of the turmoil. ... problem is that he's the one that asks me out... what am i gonna do? say no?

[Rag Doll]

Well, if you say yes, the most you'll probably ever be is a rebound. If you're cool with that or you think you'll be something more, then say yes...

[_Lost_]

ah... well... crap... now i really don't know what to do.

Looks like i'm gonna spend a lot of time focusing on writing some new songs and getting up to strength to do some 10k+ runs in the spring. lol. At least that way, I'll be able to get some sleep. (I realized that part of the problem sunday night, was that I injured my knee last tuesday and couldn't do any real exercise for a week. Running is how i've been getting to sleep for the last two months since he messaged me the first time. lol) had trouble sleeping last night, but I busted my ass in the gym today in the weight room, so I should be good for tonight. :D

[JohnnyNemesis]

The thing is, there's also a LOT to be said for the "play hard to get" tactic. Not as in, playing games, but just as in playing it cool, not being too clingy, making yourself more desirable, etc. It's stupid, but it actually is human nature. Actually, no, if the two of you are CLEARLY undeniably into one another (and this should be obvious), then you can be blunt. If it's questionable, then you may need to win them over.

This right here is so well-said. It's exactly what I was TRYING to say, but failed to. Thanks for clearing this up.

[_Lost_]

Betty is so good with words.

[Betty]

Thanks guys! That actually means something since I've always had this mental roadblock with writing, and recently I've been much more seriously toying with the idea of trying to become a good writer and involve writing in my life somehow.

Anyway, on topic, I don't know if I agree with Sam. She might be right of course. But I don't know if I buy the whole thing about NEEDING time or rebounds, etc.

Coming out of a relationship can leave you fucked up, sure, but there are tons of other issues coming into play. When the relationship ended was it at that "it's done, let's move on" point or was it of the earth-shattering "how could this be over?!" type? This makes a huge difference as to how ready a person is coming out. Also, some people have much stronger willpower and control of their emotions than others, and some people take much longer to deal/get a handle over themselves.

With regards to rebounds, I think it depends on motives. Is this guy clinging to you BECAUSE he feels lonely, etc? THAT might mean "rebound," or is this guy hanging out with you because he actually likes you? If so, then even if he's not completely over his ex or still has some issues doesn't mean you guys can't still move forward... you're not a rebound, you might just have to deal with some lingering baggage.

About a year ago I went through the "earth-shattering" break up type. Okay, it wasn't that bad, but we had to break up, and I was still in love, so whatever that means. And then I tried dating a friend... was this rebound? Was this loneliness? Quite possibly. And it was one of the stupidest things I've ever done and such a disaster. And coming out of THAT, I was even lonelier and more upset. Took a while for me to come to terms with independence again, which is fucked up, and I hate that I didn't have more control over myself.

[_Lost_]

I think that when it ended, it was a "its done, let's move on" kind of thing. And I'd like to think at least that he wants to hang out with me because he likes me. I mean, its like, when we first met back in may we were hanging out at lunch (i promise it was totally innocent and total coincidence that we went to the same place for lunch) and it was like we had been friends for forever, you know? Even though we had just met. And I know that he has been lonely, but he's been hanging out with his friends a lot more to deal with that...

Hehe... thanks Betty... you made me feel good again... :)

And yes, you are great with words. I love your posts! They are always so easy to read and understand